1944 Ford GPW-231738 - "Potshot"

If you have an unrestored WWII jeep, we would like to see pictures, and hear your comments. NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES.
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Boyso
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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:26 pm

Wow thank you! :D

It's not perfect by any means, but it isn't worse than when I began ! aha.

Always wanted to visit the UK, I'm really tired of the snow, we had 82cm just this week! I need another week of vacation to rest from that week of vacation spent shoveling!
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
MVPA #36162


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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Daren » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:44 pm

Great read and very informative. I am just embarking on what you are closer to finishing. I'll be refering to your pictures and words for future reference.
Thanks.
Will be stripping off the chassis rivets at the weekend and breaking it apart before fixing the welds and then having it media cleaned, then painted, hey not all in one weekend though! That'll be the next few months filled!
Daren
1942 Ford GPW
Scun Thorpe UK

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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:46 pm

Thank you! Don't worry, took me a long time as well haha!

Started pulling apart the rear differential. I had no expectation as the jeep had shipped with an extra diff and the thing was rusted solid. At least this one spun.

Pulled the oil drain plug; no oil - 1st uh-oh.

Pulled the diff cover and it looked clean but it has huge damage inside - 2nd uh-oh.

Looked inside the diff. darn everything looks spot on clean, almost new. I noticed one bolt missing from the carrier (explanation for the chewed carrier and cover?) but all the teeth looks clean, I'm amazed.

The rusty tag attached to one of the bolts on the cover seems to say 39/8. What does it mean?

I was thinking this thing needed a complete rebuild, I'm really amazed. Tomorrow I'll start mesuring but I'm hoping only needing to replace the bearings!


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Original paint under the grease around the oil plug :)
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
MVPA #36162

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Boyso
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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:18 am

I've done a quick video, the rubbing sound is from the brakes I hadn't removed yet.

https://www.facebook.com/BOISSEAU/video ... 358128494/

Found the remains of the bolt inside the casing. Also the oil sludge was full of metal particles/sparkle. I'm guessing all the bearings need replacing? Also found parts of the bolt between the 2 bearings on the pinion gear, no idea how they got there but they chewed up the metal sleeve thing.

Most of the bolts are loose, somebody probably did not use loctite. The gears themselve look good, couldn't find any big damage on the gears. Only one small chip on the pinion. Can I still use the set?

So the plan for now is to order a new set of bearings, new shims, new seals, and new gaskets. I'll do the brakes after the whole thing is fitted on its springs and on the frame. Locked all the parts with asbestos in cat litter boxes, just in case aha.

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Last edited by Boyso on Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
MVPA #36162

gearhead
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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by gearhead » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:48 pm

DO NOT reuse those ring gear locking plates. I had one tab come off (previous owner work) and ruin the spyder gears.
They really are not needed, proper grade bolts and torque, some lock-tite.
If you really want them buy some new ones from Ron or other good suppliers.

Ed S :)
54 CJ-3A/B
56 DJ-3A for sale
45 GPW 271022, USMC 46 CJ-2A 2WD"gasser"
50 CJ-V35
58 CJ-3B
57 DJ-3A chassis for sale

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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:06 pm

Good idea! Do you think it's safe to re-use that pinion gear?

I plan on changing all the hardware just in case.
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:17 am

FInished cleaning up all the parts from the rear axle. Lots of metal fragments especially in the oil passage to go between the 2 pinion gear bearings (initially, I thought it was a broken casing and posted it on Facebook. Thankfully, I was wrong!) I've set up a shopping list for all the stuff to change, I'm not taking any chance for the bearings, they're all full of metal bits so I'll use them to set the backlash and depth and press in the good bearings on.

Ron seems to be out of stock of the carrier bearings and wheel bearings, so I'm just waiting for that to go back on stock before ordering.

Rear axle shaft gasket -A904 R
SKU:A904 R x2

Wheel bearing seal -A864
SKU:A864 x2

Gasket differential cover -A782
SKU:A782 x1

Pinion seal -639265
SKU:639265 x1

Pinion seal gasket -636565
SKU:636565 x1

Axle tube seal 1 3/4 in -A778
SKU:A778 x2

Bearing pinion inner cone -52876
SKU:52876 x1

Bearing pinion inner cup -52877
SKU:52877 x1

Bearing pinion outer cone -52878
SKU:52878 x1

Bearing pinion outer cup -52879
SKU:52879 x1

Pinion shim set -A803
SKU:A803 x1

Shim set carrier dana 23 25 27 -A784
SKU:A784 x1

Bearing carrier cup -52881
SKU:52881 x2

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Saving up to buy myself a Husky 60 gallon compressor (CAD dollar is really bad, it's about 25% more expensive than in the US, after the currency conversion :( )
I'll also get a sandblasting cabinet for the small parts, that's gonna be fun :D

Frame is also ready for paint, finished bolting it up, now I'm just filling up the bolt heads with metal filler.
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:26 am

I noticed the pinion seems to have had some chipping to the teeth, don't know if the ring also has that kind of damage. Up to you if reusing gears with damage makes sense....while you drove for some unknown length of time with that nut flying around in there and damaging things and the shavings getting into everything, now you have to ask yourself if you WANT the risk of one or more of the teeth being cracked and then failing and doing even MORE damage in there.

If it was my jeep, I'd replace the ring and pinion based on the damage I can see in your pics.
In for a penny, in for a pound....
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sun May 15, 2016 11:16 am

I had made another thread asking about the gears and John (artificer) pointed out that the front diff uses the same type of gears as the rear diff. I opened up that one and the front diff was 100% pristine. No pitting, no damage. So I'll use that gear set in the rear diff and use the one with a few chipped teeth in the front (unless I found a better one by the time I rebuild the front diff.)

Anyway, the gearset is at the machine shop to have the bearings pulled, and I'm waiting on the 60gal compressor I ordered 2 weeks ago to arrive to start painting the frame and axles.

Prepped the rear axle for paint.

In the meantime, I also tore appart the head, manifolds, oil pump, fuel pump and distributor off the engine to have a good look around. I'm surprised, seems to still be STD but the cylinder walls are rusty up top and have ridges so it'll need to be bored out.

Broke a stud on the exhaust manifold, ggrrrr.

No cracks on the block tho!

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44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:37 am

Sorry for the lack of updates, been a bit busy at work as we had to get our project ready for the big convention in LA back in June.

June is also what we call "fly-month" so it's a good thing and I stayed away from the mosquitoes for a bit. Saved and bought a 60 gal compressor as well as a small sandblasting cabinet.

Messed up a bit when I bought my airlines though as I bought 50' of 3/8 line but the fittings are 1/4". I think I should've bought 1/2" lines with the 3/8 fittings as now pressure is going a bit down when using tools.

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I also worked some more on the differential, I think I'm close. Mesh pattern is close to the toe I believe but the backlash is at exactly 0,005" . This is with the old bearings, will need to go to a machine shop to have the new ones pressed on.

Should I move my shims to get a pattern closer to the heel ? or maybe removed a thin shim from the pinion, would that slightly augment backlash and give me a pattern closer to the root?

Thanks! :)

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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:10 pm

Went back at it and removed one 0,005" shim from the pinion gear. Now I mesured the backlash with my dial guage and it's at 0,006"

I think it's really close to center now.

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Now I plan on changing the carrier bearings for my new ones. I was planning on mesuring the old ones vs the new ones. Should I expect a lot of difference to add shims to keep the same backlash?

Also still need to do the bearing preload, just need to pick up a fish scale and hook it up to a 1ft long stick.

I'll also pick up some new ring gear bolts at my Fastenal and locktite them down to replace the lockplates.
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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:05 am

Made a third iteration, seems close to center now. Maybe a bit too much toward the face/top ? Backlash is at 0,006"

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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:36 am

Pattern is getting better but backlash isn't. I read a post, I believe by gindi, that said backlash could be slightly out of spec as long as the pattern was good. How much is too much?

Here I got 2 different patterns. Pattern A is still close to the top of the tooth but is really centered with a backlash of 0,009". It is a bit shaped like a inverted D

Pattern B is, I would say, pretty much dead on center but backlash is at 0,013". It looks oval to me. Any recommendations?


A : Image



B : Image
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:30 pm

Hi GIndi,

Wow thanks for the information!

I can't recall where I read this way of doing the differential but here's how I was doing it (probably until now :D)

I installed the ring gear with no shims under the bearings (I use old bearings honed out so now pressing/pulling required). Measured the clearance with feeler guages, got 0,071". Added 0,008" to the total as mentionned in the manual for the pinchfit. Makes removing the ring gear assy a bit harder but I think I'm using your trick you mentionned in another post of holding one of the ring gear with a wrench and turning the pinion, moving the whole assy out.

Next, I didn't set the pinion bearing preload, yet. I thought we were supposed to do that last when the setup bearings were replaced with the new ones? Right now, when I change shims for the pinion depth, I just reinstall the spacer with the amount of shims that were there previously, the rear bearing, the yoke and finally torque down nut with an impact gun until there is no play and about the same amount of drag as a door knob.

I see you mentionned (and artificer also mentionned it to me previously) that pinion depth only alters the pattern from face to flank but in practice it seems to shift the pattern slightly toward the toe at the same time as the pattern moves toward the face and vice-versa. Is it the normal behavior?

I've been playing with it all day (my back's killing me now) and it seems to only have been getting worse.

Face to flank pattern seems to be OK?

Now it's too much toward the toe. The picture in the manual I use says this is due to too little backlash. Currently with this picture, it sits at 0,011". Adding a 0,005" shim to move the ring assy away from the pinion would bring the backlash to 0,014" I presume?

Yeah the manual isn't very clear and my english isn't perfect so sometimes it's hard to understand.

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Re: 1944 Ford GPW-231738

Post by Boyso » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:56 am

Yeah I think it's the part that is confusing me. While reading the manual, the way I understand/understood it, was that to move the pattern from face to root, one had to move the pinion toward the ring gear and to the the pattern from heel to toe, one had to play with the backlash.

Now I'm confused as to which is which.

In the next photo, I removed a pinion shim as you suggested and played with the backlash a little.

However, if I understand you correctly, I would need to move the ring gear toward the pinion?

Thanks again for your help and sorry for being so slow, I sure hope the front one will be easier/faster hehe.

Etienne

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44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
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