VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Feb, 1942 - GPW1 thru end of first contract, April, 1942 - GPW15000 NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES.
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VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:30 am

Sean Elliot's gauge document on jeepdraw shows this style speedo as a VERY early GPW speedo:
SW 1943 Bon W.jpg
SW 1943 Bon W.jpg (100.12 KiB) Viewed 1660 times
Does anyone have any additional info on the use of this style SW speedo in VVEP GPWs?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by macaddict23 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:57 pm

Hi Chuck,

Good to finally meet you at TP.

I know of one VERY early GPW, and I can confirm, that it also has the speedo pictured above.

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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:11 pm

Dexter....I ran outta time to come back and chat but nice to meet you!
Do you happen to know what the DOD or the Serial Number on that GPW was?

Thanks!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by macaddict23 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:57 pm

Hi Chuck,

It has been over two years since I saw it. But I recall it being a three-digit SN#.

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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:39 am

Thank you Dexter!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)


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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Michael O. » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:58 am

What's considered VVEP? Remember, a lower serial number doesn't necessarily mean "earlier".
Michael O'Connell
1941 WC-4 8668603, USA W-219465, "9th Service Command"
1942 GPW 2647, 2/26/42, USA-2055607 (est from Tom W.)
1943 GPW 104111, 3/23/43, USA-20369245 / USN 88667 ("54") "Bayonne NJ NSD"
1944 MB 379204, 10/12/44, USA-20640967 / USN 22XXX assigned to the "AD COM PHIBS PAC"


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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Chuck Lutz » Fri May 01, 2015 11:07 am

So far no one has defined when this style speedo was used but Dexter's post indicates his example is a three-digit SN....FILO/LIFO aside, that's under one thousand if that speedo was original to that jeep...given that there isn't much talk about this style being wanted for an "early" GPW, that indicates they either broke and were replaced or, more likely....were only in use for a VERY short time....in this instance maybe early February 1942 only....

Now is that early February VVP or VVEP? I don't know but if they were used in the first couple weeks or February that is "early" enough in my book to qualify as "VVEP" I guess....

Without documentation on when changes like this took place, terms like Early, Very Early and VERY VERY Early are relative....
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Michael O. » Fri May 01, 2015 11:34 am

Well, if late January and early Feburary is the benchmark for determining a VVEP (and I agree) then GPW 2647 would fall into that category. It's DOD is 2-26-42 but would have been assembled in the second week or so in Feb. There are 3 digit GPWs with a later DoD than mine (several that I know of were delivered in March '42)....are they considered "earlier" just because they have a lower serial number or was my GPWs motor simply the "last in, first out" of the engine room at the assembly plant and thus explains why a VVEP GPW would have a serial number of 2647?

At this time, here is the speedo I'm planning on using for GPW 2647's restoration. It would be quite interesting if some Ford documents surface that discusses the style of speedometer spoken about in Chuck's first post. If that style was indeed used...it would be more rare than a slat grill speedometer!
Attachments
Early SW.jpg
Early SW.jpg (69.56 KiB) Viewed 1504 times
Michael O'Connell
1941 WC-4 8668603, USA W-219465, "9th Service Command"
1942 GPW 2647, 2/26/42, USA-2055607 (est from Tom W.)
1943 GPW 104111, 3/23/43, USA-20369245 / USN 88667 ("54") "Bayonne NJ NSD"
1944 MB 379204, 10/12/44, USA-20640967 / USN 22XXX assigned to the "AD COM PHIBS PAC"


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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by JD136 » Fri May 01, 2015 1:15 pm

Michael O
My 42 GPW has the same speedo as the one you are using in your 42.
DOD is 3-20-42 SN# 6834 from Dallas.
1942 GPW #6834 3-20-42 Dallas, Texas [USA 2065808 est.]

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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun May 03, 2015 5:06 pm

Michael...I would not say off-hand that a 2/26/42 would be a VVEP and I would not say that serial numbered GPW 2647 would be either...maybe the second week of February or around GPW-1000 might be a better cut-off for the term VVEP? I think we are using terms that are only vaguely descriptive since we don't have documentation to consider that "officially".

With that in mind maybe VEP would be from then to the end of the first Contract GPWs? Perhaps 2/14/42 to GPW-15000 for instance?

Then the EARLY ones would be Second Contract....I consider my GPW-17963 to be "EARLY" for that matter....and it is 4/24/42. AFter Ford's biggest month of production during the entire war (April 1942) I wonder if "Mid-1942" would be more descriptive?

I would not let the serial number be too influential unless it is coupled with a DOD earlier than say, 2/14/42 for a "VVEP" consideration. There were some VERY low numbered GPWs sent to each factory as "demos" which eventually seem to have been put on the production line and that would REALLY mess up things.

For GPW-2647 I would certainly use a long needle Stewart Warner as shown. As it would have a later DOD and a high enough Serial Number to be using that style in my estimation.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Tom Wolboldt » Sun May 03, 2015 5:37 pm

Hi Chuck,

The speedometer that you posted from Sean's Jeepdraw article which he says was only used on very very early production GPWs is date coded L5 or May '43. Is there anything else that connects this type of Stewart Warner long needle speedometer to a Jan. / Feb. '42 GPW ?
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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun May 03, 2015 7:16 pm

I don't know where Sean got his info from but it's never been challenged and it's never been researched one way or the other...and several guys seem to have found that style in early GPWs....really early GPWs....so it is a dilemma.

The 1944 TM 9-1829 Speedo manual shows SWs with white numerals over black wheels and black numerals over white wheels. It even shows a needle like an AC speedo has so that's of limited use as a reference.

I have one of those Sean is referring to and it is dated L 11 (Nov 1943) and I have one counterbalanced one dated M 9 (Sept 1944) and another dated N 2 (February 1945).

Here is a pic of the more well-known long needle SW speedo date code:
Stewart Warner EARLY Resto Bobs Speedo Rear.jpg
Stewart Warner EARLY Resto Bobs Speedo Rear.jpg (42.56 KiB) Viewed 1457 times
That looks like "U 8" to me which would probably indicate August 1951.....
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Michael O. » Tue May 05, 2015 1:56 pm

I think one of the best ways to determine a "VVEP" (I think there's been a new term invented here) would be a GPW with the early two piece slat grill type battery tray...no matter the actual DOD....GPW #4, for example.
Michael O'Connell
1941 WC-4 8668603, USA W-219465, "9th Service Command"
1942 GPW 2647, 2/26/42, USA-2055607 (est from Tom W.)
1943 GPW 104111, 3/23/43, USA-20369245 / USN 88667 ("54") "Bayonne NJ NSD"
1944 MB 379204, 10/12/44, USA-20640967 / USN 22XXX assigned to the "AD COM PHIBS PAC"


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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue May 05, 2015 4:28 pm

GPW #4 is an anomaly I think...I believe it was one of the first ones hand built in Dearborn and sent to the Ford factories to show them what they were going to build. I would bet it had all kinds of Willys items on it that were not yet available in the Ford system....like Willys style spring assemblies/clips and a frame with a front/rear bumper with no tooling holes for instance.

I seem to recall that the DOD on #4 indicates it was put back on the assembly line at some point quite a bit after production had got up to speed.

Whatever the term VVEP signifies it should encompass a few design changes that mark it as different from later production....what that should be is still up in the air....as is this speedo.

I wish Sean had given some source for his info on it being used VERY early in production though!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: VVEP Stewart Warner Speedo

Post by Michael O. » Tue May 05, 2015 4:41 pm

As I am intimately familiar with GPW #4, I agree 100% Chuck. I was just informed by a member here who has a 3 digit GPW delivered in March and it has a two piece battery tray also...signifying a January assembly time frame (IMO). Perhaps his was also an "instructional" vehicle?

I think I will be safe using the SW speedo I have shown.

Very interesting topic! I'm still curious about the speedo at the beginning of this discussion. My apologies if I've digressed your thread a little. Not my intention.
Michael O'Connell
1941 WC-4 8668603, USA W-219465, "9th Service Command"
1942 GPW 2647, 2/26/42, USA-2055607 (est from Tom W.)
1943 GPW 104111, 3/23/43, USA-20369245 / USN 88667 ("54") "Bayonne NJ NSD"
1944 MB 379204, 10/12/44, USA-20640967 / USN 22XXX assigned to the "AD COM PHIBS PAC"


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