GPW History Assistance

Feb, 1942 - GPW1 thru end of first contract, April, 1942 - GPW15000 NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES.
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Teraskas
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GPW History Assistance

Post by Teraskas » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:53 am

Hello there, everyone. :)

It's my first time posting on these forums. First and foremost: great community you've got going here, I'm impressed. ^^

Anyhow, on to the issue at hand:
A friend of mine recently bought a Jeep back in November, and is now wondering if the vehicle's history can't be retraced.
We're both from Belgium, and it's been quite the journey trying to get this vehicle registered.

What we do know about its history:

The vehicle was exported from Texas in 1995, and subsequently arrived in the port of Antwerp.
The importer (who also became the new owner) primarily used the vehicle for off-roading in meadow, although rarely.
Around 10 years later, he grew tired of the vehicle and sold it to his neighbour.
This neighbour had a son, who expressed interest in using the vehicle for parades and reenactment events.
Considering the fact that wanted to use it on the road, they decided to bring it to a garage for a rebuild of the essential components.
The original engine refused to start. Close inspection revealed that the engine would prove to be difficult as it was close to being too far gone.
Instead, they replaced the original engine and trans with a post-war CJ-2A engine and transmission, as well as reconfigured all the wiring to be 12v.
Afterwards, they replaced everything which needed attention: new fuelpump, brake pumps, new flywheel, completely rebuilt the carb, etc.
Eventually, the son lost interest in the 'restoration hobby'. Given the fact that it was nearly roadworthy, his father decided to continue the restoration and remaining expenses.
The restoration itself took a 1.5 years. After the final costs, the vehicle was essentially placed in a garage and acted as a museumpiece.
Flashforward to November 2014, and this is where we step in and buy it. :)

As it stands now, it's a really beautiful vehicle which still requires a minor bit of work.
From what we can tell, it still looks like the original tub, as pictures below will show.
Other than that, I've done some searching of my own and found a script F on the rear of the passenger seat, as well as a script F near the hood connection swivel.
We're not entirely sure, but we're getting the feeling that this Jeep served in the Pacific theatre of war.
Also interesting to note: although the Jeep is covered in olive drab, there appear to be areas on the hood / fenders where the olive drab is no longer present and instead a dark green layer can be seen.
Could this perhaps be USMC hunter green by any chance ? Wild speculation, I know, but still. :P

Essentially what I'm looking for is ANY information prior to it being shipped to Belgium.
This includes: possible hood number, factory of origin, even going as small as to determine the emblems on the dash.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. :)
If you have any other questions which could further my search, don't hesitate to ask. ^^
If it's unclear on the pic below, chassis number is 9426.


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Last edited by Teraskas on Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Chuck Lutz
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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:26 am

First thing to do is post a pic of the FRAME number on the left front frame rail near the brake line/hose bracket (or on the motor mounting to the rear of it). Do NOT grind anything here, the stamping may be light or may be rusted so paint remover and a wire brush may do the trick.

1) An early 1942 GPW would not have had a shipping plate.
2) The Japan rebuild tag normally means the jeep was torn apart and components from GPWs/MBs/Early/Late were used in the rebuild.
3) As you already know, the data plate is a modern reproduction.

There is much to be figured out about your new jeep....but it is easy to attach data tags to "dress up" a restoration so start with the FRAME and then find out if the tub is possibly original to that frame and then go from there!

Were you lucky enough to obtain any/all of the things like the motor that the PO removed to install that CJ running gear?

Good Luck!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by 1942ford » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:00 am

Hi Teraskas,

Welcome to the forum sir!...although new to the forum, are you new to WW2 Jeeps/vehicles too, or do you have previous MV experience?

I ask, as I'm from England and if your completely 'new' to the Jeep/MV hobby, I can point you in the right direction for who to turn to/ who to ask for info and parts etc in the UK & Europe...

I/D-wise, as Chuck said - take your time and carefully clean the chassis number...photograph it and post it on here - no doubt information will start flowing your way!!! :-)

Regarding the badges on your dashboard - they are US Army Branch of Service Insignia...I noticed: Corps of Engineers, Armoured Corps, Infantry and Cavalry from memory(there are more)...along with an enlisted-man's 'National Emblem' cap-badge - you'll be ableto easily research these on Google etc...

If I can help you further, please feel free to get in-touch!

Regards - Guy. :-)
'If its Old, Green & Smells Funny - I'll probably like it!


GPW-45259 - June '42 (Dearborn) built 'Script' GPW. (DoD: 7.2.42)
MB-347283 - late-June '44 built MB. (DoD: 7.3.44)
& GPW-272270 - Sam's June '45 (Louisville) built 'VLP' (DoD: 6.12.45)

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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by Teraskas » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:11 am

Hi there Chuck, thanks for the reply. :)

Would the picture below by any chance be what you're looking for ?
From what I recall they said that the chassis number was located on such a rusted area, that they had no choice but to grind over it. :/
Plus it was stamped it rather lightly, and by the time they discovered it, it was more to less too late to salvage.
I tried to find the GPW letters, but fear that those are gone because of the restoration.

They stated that both the frame and the tub were both originals, with the exception of the blacklight and Axe+shovel combo as those were too far gone because of heavy rust. (Initially I typed fenders here, but this was a mistake on my end. My bad ! ^^)
Sadly, I have no proof of this.
Unfortunately, I don't have anything pertaining to the restoration other than the word of the previous (2nd post-import) owner who was a police officer.
He told me that the engine was sold to an iron mongerer, yet claimed that it had the exact same number on the engine block.
He wanted to re-use said number at all costs.
Other than that, they also did some interior welding with regards to the passenger and driver floor pannels.

The only documents that I do have are: an shipping invoice from the company that imported the Jeep into Belgium, a shipping invoice pertaining to the export company, and a detailed certificate provided by Belgian customs confirming that the Jeep arrived in Belgium.
The only thing I managed to deduce from said documents that I didn't mention before is that the Jeep was shipped out of Dallas, Texas by Penbroke Marine Services.

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Last edited by Teraskas on Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by Teraskas » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:21 am

1942ford wrote:Hi Teraskas,

Welcome to the forum sir!...although new to the forum, are you new to WW2 Jeeps/vehicles too, or do you have previous MV experience?

I ask, as I'm from England and if your completely 'new' to the Jeep/MV hobby, I can point you in the right direction for who to turn to/ who to ask for info and parts etc in the UK & Europe...

I/D-wise, as Chuck said - take your time and carefully clean the chassis number...photograph it and post it on here - no doubt information will start flowing your way!!! :-)

Regarding the badges on your dashboard - they are US Army Branch of Service Insignia...I noticed: Corps of Engineers, Armoured Corps, Infantry and Cavalry from memory(there are more)...along with an enlisted-man's 'National Emblem' cap-badge - you'll be ableto easily research these on Google etc...

If I can help you further, please feel free to get in-touch!

Regards - Guy. :-)
Hi there Guy, many thanks ! :D

Yes, I'm entirely new to the WW2 Jeeps/Vehicles hobby, although my cousin's side of the family has been going strong at it for about 33 years now. :)
They've restored countless vehicles, including about 6 Jeeps, 2 Dodge WC-51s, Diamond T-wrecker, 1.5 tonne Opel Blitz, and a halftrack (Not entirely sure whether it's an M3 or an M16, but if it helps: it has a quad 50 cal mounted in the loading bay. ) My cousin's quite crazy, as she and her fiancé restored it in about 5 months when it was supposed to be a 5 year project...but regardless it was completed in time for her wedding where they used it as the 'main ceremony' vehicle. ^^
Although the above mentioned Jeep belongs to a friend of mine, I'm currently nearly a year at work restoring a '52 CJ-3A which served in the Belgian military. It's almost finished, more or less putting everything together now. :)

Much appreciated for the assistance ! My uncle happens to know a person in Belgium who has a huge stock of wartime Willys Jeep parts, Dodge, GMC, CJ, etc. so I've more or less got that covered. :)

Indeed, although chances are that there might be several different numbers on the frame. Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible to see those unless we lift the tub. :/
Many thanks for the preliminary ID of the badges. :) At least now I more or less have an idea which ones these are. ^^

Kind regards,
Teraskas.

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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by Phil Pizzi » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:36 pm

Well my take on this is

By the time frame, April 1942, everything was falling apart in the Pacific. I have 9552 and it stayed in the US so

1. Stayed in the US, US Army or Marine Corp

2. Shipped overseas, US Army (Australia) or the UK

If the Japan rebuild is real, then it probably went to the Pacific at some point.

Maybe Chuck can shed some more light on this reasoning.
Phil Pizzi
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1942 Script GPW S/N 9552

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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by artoerne » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:55 pm

The bottom picture looks like the medals fill first aid holes for decoration. Front Bumper is MB?
GPW 126652

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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by Teraskas » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:56 am

artoerne wrote:The bottom picture looks like the medals fill first aid holes for decoration. Front Bumper is MB?
Hmm, interesting !
Ironically, in nearly a year of heading to these military events, I had never seen a GPW / MB with first aid kit mounted on the dash.
Correct, the front bumper (also the rear) is MB, as well as the grille, pedals and master cyllinder connection plate from what I could see.
There's always a small chance that this could be a GPW mounted on an MB frame, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Also along those lines, on the Japan dataplate they've identified the vehicle as model MB in the lower left corner.
Don't know if that tells us anything conclusive.

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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by gearhead » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:34 am

First aid kit wash mounted behind dash with fasteners showing.

Ed S :)
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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by Tom Wolboldt » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:59 am

Going by the repop data plate data if copied from the original data plate , the frame stamping should look like this.

Photo originally posted by Chuck Lutz.
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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:35 am

Phil.....my thoughts on the Japan rebuild tag are based on the appearance of the Shipping Plate which was not even invented when this jeep was originally built so it was "added" by someone at some point. For instance if it was shipped out later on when that data was required, it might just have been stenciled on the right side of the jeep tub behind the fender.

All the other "add-ons" seem to me to be 'window dressing' by a PO so perhaps the Shipping Plate and the Japan rebuild tag were also "add-ons"?

I'm waiting for Tom W. to comment on the frame rail stampings but they certainly are not in any way the kind of font that Ford used.....in fact the font is what one would expect to see in Europe.

Here's an odd thought....if that stamping is the only one the owner can find on the frame....then perhaps it is just an MB frame that was stamped with "9426" once it arrived in Europe and was some attempt to make it a "matching numbers GPW"? I don't know the laws there, but maybe the frame NEEDED to have the correct number stamped on it to match the data plate....

However in the world of GPWs.....first came a motor with a number on it. That number was stamped on the frame and the data plate so all three match. This jeep seems to have a frme (GPW or MB???) with an incorrect frame number stamped on it and it has a repop data plate.

So we are left with little to actually trace it's history but the addition of a Japan rebuild tag would be a good idea to answer any skeptics about why all this stuff makes no sense.

Is the tub a Script Ford Tub as it should be?
Is there a frame number stamped on the frame besides this obvious European stamping?
What is the motor number?

Until something more on the frame stamping is found....this is certainly a put together jeep that has a Japan rebuild tag on it....but did the US Army rebuild it in Japan or did a PO add the tag for some other reason????
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by Phil Pizzi » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:43 am

My thoughts exactly.

If that is a valid ser# and the repro data plate is accurate, it's just to early to have been shipped when we were still trying to equip and mobilize. Now, after June of '42 all bets are off on where it might have gone. JMHO
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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by gearhead » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:48 am

ok let us say it up front......in 70 plus years it can be close to impossible to determine when or who modified or rebuilt this jeep.
Possible some careful sanding will reveal some unit history on the tub?

Ed S :)
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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by Teraskas » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:46 am

Chuck Lutz wrote:Phil.....my thoughts on the Japan rebuild tag are based on the appearance of the Shipping Plate which was not even invented when this jeep was originally built so it was "added" by someone at some point. For instance if it was shipped out later on when that data was required, it might just have been stenciled on the right side of the jeep tub behind the fender.

All the other "add-ons" seem to me to be 'window dressing' by a PO so perhaps the Shipping Plate and the Japan rebuild tag were also "add-ons"?

I'm waiting for Tom W. to comment on the frame rail stampings but they certainly are not in any way the kind of font that Ford used.....in fact the font is what one would expect to see in Europe.

Here's an odd thought....if that stamping is the only one the owner can find on the frame....then perhaps it is just an MB frame that was stamped with "9426" once it arrived in Europe and was some attempt to make it a "matching numbers GPW"? I don't know the laws there, but maybe the frame NEEDED to have the correct number stamped on it to match the data plate....

However in the world of GPWs.....first came a motor with a number on it. That number was stamped on the frame and the data plate so all three match. This jeep seems to have a frme (GPW or MB???) with an incorrect frame number stamped on it and it has a repop data plate.

So we are left with little to actually trace it's history but the addition of a Japan rebuild tag would be a good idea to answer any skeptics about why all this stuff makes no sense.

Is the tub a Script Ford Tub as it should be?
Is there a frame number stamped on the frame besides this obvious European stamping?
What is the motor number?

Until something more on the frame stamping is found....this is certainly a put together jeep that has a Japan rebuild tag on it....but did the US Army rebuild it in Japan or did a PO add the tag for some other reason????
Having visited countless events in this past year, I can confirm that the new 'shipping' dataplates could be found in more or less every stall. Yet, the Japan ones were nowhere to be seen.
The irony is that my uncle has been doing hobby for over 33 years, and in all the meetings he's gone to he has NEVER ever seen such a Japan dataplate.
Along the same lines, my cousin's father in law (the one who owns the 1.5 tonne Opel Blitz), who has been doing this hobby ever since the mid 1950s has never seen such a tag either, and he was completely astounded when he noticed it in my friend's Jeep.

By the way Chuck, I've found a thread dating back to 2010 where you also posted with regards to a similar Japan tag being shown.(Although from a Bantam trailer.)
I don't know if it's helpful, but I'll provide you guys with the link: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=159237

Judging from the dataplates I've seen for sale at meetings, it's highly likely that these use a European font as you mentioned.
If I had to take a wild guess: Personally I believe that it's an MB frame. (along with MB grille, pedals, etc.) I don't know the exact laws for Europe, but with regards to Belgium...the chassisnumber HAS to be located on the left hand exterior of the frame, in front of the left wheel and correspond with the exact same number on the dataplates, as per directive of the government and vehicle inspection. (I don't know the exact word in English.)
HOWEVER, something similar I'm experiencing with my own CJ-3A: Chassisnumbers were stamped in rather lightly.
The Belgian military often had to repaint their vehicles in NATO green on an almost biannual basis. In order to remove the paint, they used any type of sandpaper they could find to get rid of the paint.
In 95% of the cases, the Original chassisnumber was grinded on during the procedure and disappeared. As a result, a new chassisnumber had to be stamped in, albeit with a different font.
In this case (seeing as it didn't serve in the Belgian military) there's a chance that something similar happened, and that the 'Original 9426' number was stamped in by post-war owners, yet in a different font.

You mean whether or not the tub has the huge FORD letters on the left side of the rear end ? Nope, it doesn't. :/
Assuming the Japan dataplate is real, there's always the possibility that the wartime tub was replaced with a non-script tub in the rebuild.
The countless puncture marks on the bottom of the tub certainly verify that its old. :P
Currently, said number is the only one I could find. However, there's always a possibility that other numbers are hidden on the chassis (E.g. on the frame above the right rearwheel, etc.) but given the fact that there's no space between the tub and the frame there besides a few milimeters, it's near impossible for me to determine that.

I don't know about the current motor number, except that the Original engine was replaced with a CJ engine in a civilian restoration some 10 years ago.
What I DO know is that the current engine was completely taken apart and overhauled. Another interesting thing to note is that the cyllinder heads are still the original MB / GPW ones. Why on earth someone would use those instead of the CJ, I don't know. Perhaps the cyllinder heads were the only still useable part from the original engine ? Who knows, that information has been lost to history. :/

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Re: GPW History Assistance

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:18 am

The "European font" I mentioned is what is stamped on the FRAME....that would not have been stamped here in the USA at a Ford factory.

Right now we have NO idea where the number "9426" originated from.
1) Was there an original "GPW<->9426" stamped on the FRAME? No, it is in a European font and doesn't even have the "GPW<->" in front of it.
2) Was there an original data plate on the tub with the SAME info on it as this repop plate and was the frame stamping copied from it?
3) Is/was the motor in this jeep stamped "GPW<->9426" and was the data plate/frame stamping copied from it?
4) Did someone just by an old title and then add that to a jeep made up with numbers to reflect that title?

Here is where Tom W. is the expert....but....the plate seems to be a Louisville plate. I have a pic of an original data plare "GPW 11084" 3/27/42. While it is possible for jeeps on consecutive days to have motor numbers that far apart....this is so EARLY in production I would question that possibility. (Tom W.?)

However there is a Dallas GPW 9445 dated 3/26/42 that might have been in inspiration for this data plate...
Another 3/26/42 GPW from Dearborn was numbered "GPW 9924"

Now to the Japan rebuild plate....all the stampings on that plate have BLACK paint embedded in the stamping....except the "9426" which is lightly stamped and has no paint in its stamping....Hmm....??? Maybe the rebuild tag is legit ( think it is) but maybe this is where someone got the idea on how to give this jeep an identity since there is no frame number, apparently no motor number...and the data plate is a repop? Just the addition of that data plate and the rest of the info centered around that "9426" may be where this jeep got its numbers from???

Your Uncle hasn't even SEEN a rebuild plate like this so maybe that's another indication it and the jeep came together somewhere more recently?

There are many trailers that were rebuilt in Japan after the war....one of the outfits that did that was the 229th Base Ordnance Depot. There were MANY places that rebuilt the hundreds if not thousands of jeeps, trailers, trucks, etc. that were sent to Japan for rebuilds and consequently used in the Korean War or sent onwards to NATO stockpiles.

So...to recap what I think I am seeing:
1) Frame stamping is European, so it wasn't a Ford factory assembly unless there is another frame stamping.
2) Frame appears to be an MB style.
3) Data plate is a repop and where the info on it came from is anyone's guess
4) Shipping Tag is an 'add-on' as they weren't even invented until something like late 1943 or probably 1944.
5) Japan rebuild tag has no provenance and may have been another "add-on" and had the "9426" stamped on it long after the rest of the info on it was stamped on it.
6) There are many holes in the dash with "add-ons" in them...window dressing items which may account for the shipping tag and Japan rebuild tag.
7) If I was to install a CJ motor in my GPW or even an MB motor and I was inclined to want it to remain a "GPW" then I would install a Ford head on it as it would look/fool to most eyes to be a "Ford engine"....that may account for th hea change.

If you do some more looking at the frame rail or the motor mount you may find some GPW info....but have you happened to see if there is an MB frame tag (or the remnants of one/old rivets) still on the left front frame horn?

No offense, but based on the info I see so far it is a complete fabrication by a PO and none of the "numbers" seem to have a provenance based on WWII or US Army rebuild efforts. To export a vehicle to Europe or to even sell it in most of the States you need some documentation and fabricating documentation seems to be a big business with all the data plates for sale here and on Ebay and the titles being sold for vehicles that went to the crusher long ago....

Hey...it may totally legitimate...but so far suspicion reigns supreme on this one...
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947


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