4 wheel steer GP

1940 - 1941 BRC, MA, GP, Preproduction Prototypes. Knowledge Base NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES.

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acmack
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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by acmack » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:13 pm

Rory wrote:
Is this the same Jeep ? Looks like one has a MB style inner windshield ?
It is and it isn't. The first photo is the original in as-delivered configuration. The second photo although taken in 1953 in a pose along side an M38A1 is the rebuilt configuration of the same vehicle. Unlike the Bantams and Fords the Quad did poorly at the initial trials and was sent back to the factory by Barney Roos for "rebuiding". It was referred to as the "rebuilt Quad" from then on.

I had stated in an earlier post that there was photos of at least 2 different Quads. The "other" Quad is pictured below. Notice the 4 wheel steer! Possibly the rarest of the 4WS's.

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Any other spacecraft or missile owners out there?
60' M422 538
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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by acmack » Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:30 pm

Jim, what was the sequence of (body/chassis) numbers for the 4WS GP's? The only number I saw was your 15240. David
Any other spacecraft or missile owners out there?
60' M422 538
65' Apollo BP CM A-36
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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by acmack » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:14 pm

I have 2WS GP number 15246 so I know the sequence of 4WS numbers can't go past 15245. David
Any other spacecraft or missile owners out there?
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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by Nikko » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:06 pm

HI Jim

WHAT A NICE STAMPLER YOU HAVE 8)

Merry Christmas
From
Nikko
1943 GPW 135099
1949 Spen 1/4 t trailer S/N 158
and a lot of nuts and bolts :-)

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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by pierino » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:54 pm

acmack wrote:I have 2WS GP number 15246 so I know the sequence of 4WS numbers can't go past 15245. David

mmmhhmmmm I have GP15594, and I was so lucky to drive Luc's GP that is one less, GP15593.... and is a 4WS.

ciao
maurizio
1938 Ford Eifel
1941 Dodge WC21
1941 Ford GP
1942 Ford GTB, matching #'s
1943 Huffman model 81
1943 R.I.A. Hand Cart M3A4
1943 Willys MB
1943 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Ford GPW, matching #'s
1944 Cushman 39G
1944 Harley WLA
1944 Converto Dump 1/2 Ton
1944 VW TYP166 Schwimmwagen
1944 Chevrolet G-7163 K-44
1960 Willys MB-T
1943 Stinson L-5 SOLD w/sadness

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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by Jim Gilmore » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:34 am

Humm...

I thought everybody knew that Willys delivered two of those grossly over weight Pilot models to the QMC in 1940.

One was 2 ws and the other was 4 ws.

Also..there really was no "rebuilding" of a Quad...just some changes to the windshield.......

...all that jazz about "cutting down the bolts and only one coat of paint" is just so much Foo-Foo......

Rory wrote:

"..Is this the same Jeep ? Looks like one has a MB style inner windshield ? .."

Ohhh...go right into the bathroom and wash your mouth out with soap!

You mean....a Ford GP style, Clarence Kramer designed and patented, windshield.....used by Willys only by the grace and goodness of FMC and Kramer !!!

Bruce wrote:

"...David, I am sure you know that GP serial numbers STARTED at 8550.......Dr Gilmore will have to explain this one........ when he posted that number, I remained quiet until now........I am almost positive Lyndsey Clark's production GP number one or two is 8551..............my 8681 is number 131 off the assembly line......no one in thirty years has ever explained how they started the serial numbers at 8550...........strange number, huh???????? Jim will answer again that this is MOTOR number, not serial number, but what would be the SERIAL number to match this motor? BEFORE GP number one??????? .."


Humm.......oh...wait....I'll bet you were writing this in the office and the Nitros Oxide bottle was leaking........and you were a bit dizzy.... :-)

As you have been corrected as to the first MOTOR number .....8501...let me add a few things here.

While 8501 was the first motor assembled it was not the first GP.

A GP production pilot was built first..and tested (no motor number on the block). Then production started. Linsay's GP 8501 jeep has a much later DOD date than other GP's with higher numbers.

This is because motors were made first... then sent to #4 Building for assembly into chassis.

Motor number 8501...being the first... was most likely tested for many hours and days. Then this motor was scrapped and the number used on a new motor.

Remember...all Ford vehicle VIN numbers matched the motor that was dropped into the chassis.

# 8501 was selected for the starting motor because this is where the tractor motor numbers were at in the serial number progression. A block of motor numbers was selected and set aside for GP motors. This is why 9N tractor motors go from # 8500 right to #10001 in one days production. ( this must confuse the tractor guys)

In order to say "this GP is earlier/later than that GP" can only be determined by THE DOD...and not the vehicle (motor) number!


David wrote:
"....I have 2WS GP number 15246 so I know the sequence of 4WS numbers can't go past 15245. .."

No so....remember...GP vehicles were NOT made in numerical order!

They were produced in the order of the motor number that was dropped into the frame. No attempt to get them in ANY order was made...it was..just grab the next motor and drop it in.

The last 4WS GP's were in the 166xx range.......

David...what is the earlyist DOD on your list?

Brian Wolf or Jim Grahm's GP?


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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by pierino » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:47 am

I have a suggestion for David and his list. the first field would be nicer being DoD... :wink:

ciao
maurizio
1938 Ford Eifel
1941 Dodge WC21
1941 Ford GP
1942 Ford GTB, matching #'s
1943 Huffman model 81
1943 R.I.A. Hand Cart M3A4
1943 Willys MB
1943 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Ford GPW, matching #'s
1944 Cushman 39G
1944 Harley WLA
1944 Converto Dump 1/2 Ton
1944 VW TYP166 Schwimmwagen
1944 Chevrolet G-7163 K-44
1960 Willys MB-T
1943 Stinson L-5 SOLD w/sadness

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pierino
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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by pierino » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:21 am

well... I did a little homeworks... and this list by DoD tells another story of the GP's :D

this is a little extract from David's list (his copyright, of course... 8) ), and apart from few mistakes, I can see first day reported on feb 28th, and last around november 12th 1941... being mine so close to last digits...

hope yiou enjoy... you can see some nice mess around march 1941... :wink:

Jim, maybe you can tell us more about GP history from this list ! :D

ciao
maurizio

Image
1938 Ford Eifel
1941 Dodge WC21
1941 Ford GP
1942 Ford GTB, matching #'s
1943 Huffman model 81
1943 R.I.A. Hand Cart M3A4
1943 Willys MB
1943 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Ford GPW, matching #'s
1944 Cushman 39G
1944 Harley WLA
1944 Converto Dump 1/2 Ton
1944 VW TYP166 Schwimmwagen
1944 Chevrolet G-7163 K-44
1960 Willys MB-T
1943 Stinson L-5 SOLD w/sadness

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Tom Wolboldt
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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by Tom Wolboldt » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:25 am

Hi Jim,

You posted.
In order to say "this GP is earlier/later than that GP" can only be determined by THE DOD...and not the vehicle (motor) number!
Would not the most actuate method be to use the assembly date order of the GP ? I believe DoDs can vary in the actual acceptance date due to various reasons.

Edited - delete date and replace with order.
Last edited by Tom Wolboldt on Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by pierino » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:00 am

Tom wrote:... to use the assembly date of the GP ?

are those dates known by general public, or only to researchers? 8)

ciao
maurizio
1938 Ford Eifel
1941 Dodge WC21
1941 Ford GP
1942 Ford GTB, matching #'s
1943 Huffman model 81
1943 R.I.A. Hand Cart M3A4
1943 Willys MB
1943 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Ford GPW, matching #'s
1944 Cushman 39G
1944 Harley WLA
1944 Converto Dump 1/2 Ton
1944 VW TYP166 Schwimmwagen
1944 Chevrolet G-7163 K-44
1960 Willys MB-T
1943 Stinson L-5 SOLD w/sadness

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Tom Wolboldt
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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by Tom Wolboldt » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:15 am

Hi maurizio,

I made a misstake In my last post. I should have wrote assembly order. I will correct the posting.

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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by Jim Gilmore » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:16 pm

".... Would not the most actuate method be to use the assembly date order of the GP ? .."

What do you mean by this?

What is the assembly date order?

What is assembly order.?



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Tom Wolboldt
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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by Tom Wolboldt » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:32 pm

Hi Jim,

You ask
What is assembly order.?
The assembly order is the order in which GPs were assembled. Like 1st GP down the assembly line then 2nd GP down the assembly then 3rd GP down the assembly etc. all on a given day. Now maybe Ford treated GPs different from how they treated GPWs so the GP assembly order may not be as easy to figure out.

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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by Jim Gilmore » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:00 pm

Interesting...

never seen this..

Can you post an example of one day?

This is a Ford document?

Does it have a Form number?

Jim Gilmore

Jim Thorpe. PA

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acmack
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Re: 4 wheel steer GP

Post by acmack » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:42 pm

Jim, what were the body/chassis/motor numbers for the 4WS production?

Do you have a photo of your original 4WS 15240 to post? :D David
Any other spacecraft or missile owners out there?
60' M422 538
65' Apollo BP CM A-36
60' Gemini BP CM MSC312


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