M38A1 turn signals

1950 - 1968, M38, M38A1, M170, modifications, sugestions, and ideas, official MWO's and unofficial field mods.
Kendall
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: Wichita, KS

M38A1 turn signals

Post by Kendall » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:37 pm

Recently came across a 24 v turn signal set-up with partial wiring of 8 wires. Could someone explain where the wires go? Thanks, Kendall


Rich Saylor
G-Major General
G-Major General
Posts: 3419
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 7:01 am
Location: Monterey, California

turn signals

Post by Rich Saylor » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:33 am

The only "Jeeps" that had turn signals were the M151 series, and were wired for them. Early 151's had control boxes that had screw post connections, and later ones had the sealed type pin connectors, which were part of the M151's harness. Neither the M38 nor the M38A1 had provisions for turn signals, meaning that there are no wires in the harness for them, and so if you want to use the M151 type turn signals you'll need to acquire a wiring diagram for the M151, and construct your own harness. Essentially you'll need a power supply from wherever you choose, and appropriate leads going to ground, the column mounted control lever box, and the various front & rear lamps, which you'll also have to fit, or else convert the existing lights to do duty as turn signals. This subject had been discussed many, many times, so try first doing a search on this site for those topics; after that, try olive-drab.com, as well as the MJeeps forum on Yahoo Groups.

Remember that the military used black wiring exclusively with stamped aluminum marker tabs to identify wires, and the olive-drab.com site has the military wiring codes in a printable version.

It is possible to convert the front small convoy lights to turn signals by changing the cover to an amber lens (so it can be seen, unlike the convoy lights!), and a left rear lamp housing can be substituted for the right rear stop light, and both converted to turn signals, but neither light is particularly visible. Switching to an M151 rear lamp would work but would also be an obvious change, not to mention that the M151 lamp housing is much larger, and would project from the M38A1's rear panel opening. You could also simply fit amber-lensed accessory lamps from another source altogether, attaching them to the bumperettes or whatever. 24 volt lamps will fit in normal civvy 12 volt sockets, the pins, etc. corresponding to the same type of lamp in wither voltage (single filament, dual filament). One source of 24 volt lamps is aviation supply houses or your local airport FBO (means "fixed base operator") in other works, an airport-located repair shop, aircraft rental, pilot school, or whatever; nearly airport has one, and mechanics & parts to work on aircraft- many of which have 24 volt systems.
Rich

User avatar
Bread-Box
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:42 am
Location: Vancouver, WA

Post by Bread-Box » Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:30 pm

Their are kits out there to do this retorfit, one of the guys in my club did it to his and it still looks pretty original. I will try and find out what he used.
53 M38A1

Due to budget constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel has been temporarily shut off. Pleas find your way in the dark.

User avatar
kb1zq
G-Major
G-Major
Posts: 950
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:26 pm
Location: Del City, OK

Post by kb1zq » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:25 am

If you are still in the rebuild stage, you can order a wiring harness from VWOM and he will include the wires needed to add turn signals to it... I had mine done with this mod (the harness only) and he also added the required convoy light wiring for the M-38 CDN that I have...

I have other things going right now so the jeep is on a back burner, till I get caught up, but I keep looking for parts and get them as I can afford them...
Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (In Restoration)
1954 Willys M38A1-201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK

User avatar
mrswrench
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 488
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:21 pm
Location:

Post by mrswrench » Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:40 am

The M38/M38A1/M170 had a Army service kit to convert them. Many were converted by the Army.

You'll have to add front signal lamps either with a new style dual filiment front marker lamp assembly or a seperate lamp assembly each side up front. You'll need to add a second left rear lamp assembly to the right side so you have two service brake lamps then just follow the wiring diagrams of the kit or the M151 series. The Army's standard wire numbering system makes this a very easy task. Even we lady vehicle technicians had no problem installing the kits. :wink:

Image

Image
MrsWrench MB and M38

User avatar
mrswrench
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 488
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:21 pm
Location:

Post by mrswrench » Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:53 am

Here's Jeff Smith's MVPC site info on the kits:
http://www.mvpc.com/turn.htm
These are from his site:

http://www.mvpc.com/turninst.JPG

Image
MrsWrench MB and M38

CGarbee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:06 am
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Post by CGarbee » Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:33 am

The instal of turn signals on my '51 M38 was made in the same manner that I installed them on my '53 M37... I have a writeup on my setup (on my M37 page) that might be useful/interesting to some of you.

See:
http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/turnsignals.htm

Enjoy.
2012 East Coast Convoy Commander
1953 M37 with Cummins 4BT
1963 XM708
1951 and 1952 M38's
1971 XM813, 1973 M817, 1971 M816
1968 M274A5
1/4, 3/4, 5t trailers...

User avatar
davistroy
G-Sergeant
G-Sergeant
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: Marietta, GA
Contact:

Wiring Diagram for SignaStat 600?

Post by davistroy » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:33 pm

Anyone have a wiring diagram for this turn signal switch? The metal tags have the letters B, C, D, E, F, G

Image
Image
Troy Davis
1953 USMC M38A1
Restoration Blog: http://troy-m38a1.blogspot.com/

User avatar
softskin_driver
G-Lieutenant Colonel
G-Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 1063
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 11:49 pm
Location:
Contact:

Post by softskin_driver » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:20 pm

Has anyone changed to dual brake lights with the big red taillight lenses from the goats?
What does it involve wiring wise?
Do you have to alter the lights themselves?
While I am doing this I would like to add turn signals
These alterations I now feel are a mandatory after driving my M170 on the highway this past weekend here in Sillycone valley in Kalifornia.
This might help keep my funny fender from becoming a flat fender with me in it. The truckers around here are driving 80mph with doubles!!!
I'm in a slow green vehicle doing 45mph and they want the off ramp I need flashers or sumthin to stay alive out there.

:shock:
Dave Ball
MVCC, President, Editor
MVPA 9377
http://www.mvccnews.net
1942 USA Dodge WC-24
1942 USN Dodge WC-56

Rich Saylor
G-Major General
G-Major General
Posts: 3419
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 7:01 am
Location: Monterey, California

turn signals, etc.

Post by Rich Saylor » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:01 am

Here's a reprint of a discussion I found on the internet:

"Turn Signals

A lot of early series M37's including mine did not have turn signals. My parts truck (which is a '54) had the mechanical turn signal box installed by the glove box, but the rest of the system was non existant. After checking around a bit, it seemed like the consensus among military vehicle owners was that the original mechanical flasher setup was marginal and could be expensive when you could find the parts while the better solution to use the modern solid state military hardware that was more rubust and much less expensive. It also became pretty apparent that I had erred when I ordered my reproduciton wiring harness in that I had gotten one correct for my vehicle, but in doing so I had not gotten a wiring harness with provisions for turn signals that are included in later series trucks.

That being the case, here's what I did:


I pieced together the parts that I would need for my turn signal instalation while making the rounds of local MV parts dealers around North Carolina and while ordering other parts over the internet. I got a set of current composite front lights from Trader John's Outpost (these are the ones with the amber lens on top with the blackout marker just below, made of some sort of OD colored plastic. I then got a set of full red lenses (Gamma Goat - M561) from White Owl Parts for my rear lights (both three bulb units from the left of the early M37 series, or as used on both sides of the later model trucks) when I was in Kinston on a business trip. I picked up a turn signal unit (solid state) while at AB Linn's and purchased a turn signal harness and turn signal switch from Delk's Surplus on the way back home.

The front composites lights bolt onto the existing market light brackets, I had to enlarge the hole for the wires to pass through as the grommet on the light does not quite line up with the hole in the bracket. I used a hacksaw and made the hole in the bracket into a keyhole shaped cutout.

The rear lenses screwed right on the housings. My housing looked ok on the inside. White Owl Parts had the entire light assemblies (in fact they took my lenses off a pair in order to sell them to me), so my housing had been bad, I could have purchased entire Goat lights for the rear.

The turn signal switch mounted to the steering column with a hose clamp. I put it just below the wheel so I can reach it with my fingers while keeping my hand on the steering wheel. One thing I learned after I painted the interior of the cab after I did my turn signal instalation is that the switch is grounded through the steering column. I had to go back and scape a little paint off the steering colunm to get my ground back...

I ran the harness through the hole above the steering column in the access cover on the dash and then I put the turn signal controller on the bracket located just above the steering column. I had to drill a pair of holes for the mounting screws, and I
drilled another for the ground lead since it's connector was too small to fit on the small bolts I was using to mount the flasher.

I then hooked up the harness that goes between the flasher switch and the flasher unit. Both ends of the harness have Cannon plugs so it was just a matter of lining up the threads and tightening everything up. I used a couple of wire ties to secure the harness to the steering column.

I then pulled apart the harness connector behind the three lever light switch in order to install a lead on pin J, this is the pin that supplies power to the turn signal unit when the lights are on. Some trucks have this pin conected depending on which wiring harness is installed. As I mentioned earlier, I had gotten a reproduction wiring harness without turn signal provisions, so I ended up taking the Cannon connector apart and soldering in a new lead to pin J and then I reasembled the plug and screwed it back onto the light switch.

Using some mil spec wire and a combination of metal and rubber connectors as appropriate I connected up the rest of the pieces. I used the wiring circuit numbers from a table on olive-drab.com, but I had to chase down one mismatched number from what my components are. Pin J on the back of the light switch feeds the flasher through wire marked
461/460 on my harness instead of wire 467 as shown on olive-drab.

The flasher harness wires 460 and 461 go to the front right and left right respectively. The composites have wires with the corresponding circuit numbers. I ended up having blackout, park, and turn signal lights in the front of the truck.

I ran lines from 22-461 and from 22-460 to the rear left and rear right respectively. Since I don't plan on using blackout lights, I just ran the lines at the rear to the 22 wire on each lamp.

For a really "correct" setup, I should run the pin C (circuit 22) on the back of the three lever light switch to circuit 22 on the flasher harness, and then hook the 22-460 and 22-461 back into the correct lines on the truck to maintain the rear blackout lights, but then I wouldn't be able to run the full red lenses.

Since installing the turn signals in the truck, I have converted the truck to 12 volts. The conversion of the turn signals involved swapping out the bulbs and replacing the flasher unit. A description of this is given on the 12 volt Conversion page.

Recently, one of the guys on the MVEmail list created a turn signal page discussing the workings of the M-Series turn signal switch including a schematic that I found to be a great reference especially when debugging a system that has stopped working.

Home"


-back to me...

For Gamma Goat turn signals, just type in "Gamma Goat turn signals" on Google or whatever, and you'll find not only this posting, but also several suppliers of what you need.

If you come across a full set of turn signal stuff (like for an M151; early units are larger, & have post connections, later ones are smaller, electronic, & have plug in pin cables), if it comes with the full harness, fine, otherwise you'll need to make your own harness. Remember that all wires are black, with small aluminum tags at the end, stamped with the circuit number. Circuit numbers can be found by going to Olive-Drab.com or by googling "M-Series Circuit Numbers" and opening the link. Print out the page of numbers, remembering that only a few of over 900 numbers are used on Jeeps.

The various suppliers also carry amber conversion lenses to convert the front convoy lights to amber turn signals, which will need to be fitted to the turn signal harness, rather than to the blackout circuit.

Hope this helps!
Rich

mutt66
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:28 am
Location:

Post by mutt66 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:28 am

I have a couple of military turnsignal kits that were used by the military to convert the early M-Series vehicles over to turnsignals. Can be used on vehicles from 1/4 ton to 2 1/2 ton:
2540-792-8297
KIT, TURN SIGNAL
TRUCK 24 VOLT
1 EACH
04-20-113-AMC-07004(T)
DATE 12/65
If interested e-mail me at m151a168@yahoo.com
Scott out

Cuz
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 6672
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:26 am
Location: Northwestern Wisconsin
Contact:

Post by Cuz » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:53 pm

Two of the military turn signal upgrade kits were specific to the M38 and the M38A1 and had specific directions for them. These were not M151 only kits.

Two of them are shown above already. No need to re-invent the wheel here. Just follow the kit directions. Most of the parts are still easily found in the system.
Cuz (AKA Wes K)
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 6? M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D & 47 T3-C

User avatar
softskin_driver
G-Lieutenant Colonel
G-Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 1063
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 11:49 pm
Location:
Contact:

Post by softskin_driver » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:30 pm

Thanks Wes and Rich!
Scott I have sent you an email.

:)
Dave Ball
MVCC, President, Editor
MVPA 9377
http://www.mvccnews.net
1942 USA Dodge WC-24
1942 USN Dodge WC-56

User avatar
mvpc
G-Major
G-Major
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:11 am
Location: Pensacola, FL
Contact:

Re: Wiring Diagram for SignaStat 600?

Post by mvpc » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:44 pm

here you go:
http://www.mvpc.com/circuit.htm


davistroy wrote:Anyone have a wiring diagram for this turn signal switch? The metal tags have the letters B, C, D, E, F, G

Image
Image
www.mvpc.com (retired for the moment)
Jeff Smith M*V*P (MVPA# 7461)
3519 Gatewood dr.
Pensacola, FL 32514
850-475-5030
1972 Chevrolet Army Base truck
1980 Flight Line Cushman Scooter 24volt
http://www.mvpc.com/1972chevy.htm

rpso970
G-Private
G-Private
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:48 pm
Location:

Re: M38A1 turn signals

Post by rpso970 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:53 am

I am using a duce and Half turn signal unit with our jeep.


Post Reply

Return to “M38, M38a1 Modifications”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests