U.S. NAVY 87559

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Myers
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U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:40 pm

If any of the Navy guys have anything to add, please feel free to comment. This is my first Navy jeep, and I know very little about them. I believe the wartime paint was OD green with forest green brushed over the blue drab numbers, and yellow navy registration applied over that. IMHO the grey is very late war or most likely post war. This is a Richmond, CA GPW; so I assume it spent the war on the west coast.. Just a guess. Thanks!

This jeep has the exact same font and letter style as mine, and is only 300ish numbers apart.

http://www.ww2jeep.gportal.hu/picview.p ... 3&index=20


Plant: Richmond, CA
DOD: 1-44
USA REG: 20439314
USN REG: 87559
Body SN: 161784
ACM1 tub SN: 223693
Frame SN: 161784
Engine SN: 161784
Engine Casting Code: K22311 (November 22 43)
T84 Casting Code: L2243D (December 22nd 43?)
Distributor IGC 4705: 12X (December 43)
Generator GEG 5101D: 12X (December 43)
Regulator VRY4203: 4W (April 42) base and 9W (September 42) Cover -- replaced at some point.
Starter: UNKOWN, band is missing
Oil Filter: FRAM
Radiator: MB Style, black; no traces of OD.


Paint order:

Red Primer

OD Green

Blue Drab USA 20439314

Forrest Green only over blue drab numbers

Yellow U.S. NAVY 87559

Blue/Grey

Haze Grey

Black U.S. NAVY ~ 87559

Black

Haze Grey

Red

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Last edited by Myers on Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:01 pm, edited 5 times in total.
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627


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Mark Tombleson
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Mark Tombleson » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:52 pm

That is an interesting link.

I really have nothing to add right now but wish you well on your restoration. :D
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Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:53 am

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1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627

Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:22 pm

A question for the navy gurus.

What process did the Army contract jeeps that went to the navy go through? From what I've gathered, this jeep never was used by the Army. There are no stars or markings that suggest that the Army assigned it to a unit.

The "NA" on the bumperette is the first "army" font and style of marking that I've found. Unfortunately the rest of the bumperettes rusted beneath the paint and there is no chance of recovering the stencils.

The NA white stenciling is on the factory OD, and is blotched over with forest green just like the blue drab numbers. They were covered the same time the yellow navy stencils were applied.

Which brings me to my question. Were the " Army contract - but navy bound" GPWs shipped to the Army and then given straight to the navy, or were they shipped directly from Ford to the navy? If they were initially sent to the Army, could the Army have stenciled something along the lines of " NAVY CONTRACT" on the bumperettes? I don't see why there would be a unit marking on the jeep but no stars. Also, it seems like a big coincidence that the unkmown marking starts with NA on what ended up being a NAVY jeep. I'm probably reading too far into this, but it's fun to go down the rabbit hole on occasion.

Thanks for listening to my rambling! :lol:
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627

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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:13 pm

After a lot of tedious paint removal, I think I have established everything that I can concerning the original markings.

Factory OD green with 2" blue drab USA 20349314 numbers

White "NA ???????????" 2" stencils added to bumperettes (maybe to front bumper, obviously won't ever be able to figure that out)

Forest Green sprayed (not brushed on as I previously thought) over blue drab registration and white 2" bumperette markings

2.5" Yellow U.S. NAVY 87559 applied to hood

1.75 Yellow U.S.N. 87559 applied to tailgate beneath the jerry can bracket.


I marked out the positions of each marking so that I can replicate the exact placement. I have been looking for Navy fonts, and can't seem to find one that matches mine. The letter width is 3/8" for both the 2.5" and 1.75" numbers.


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Last edited by Myers on Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627

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Mark Tombleson
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Mark Tombleson » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:58 pm

Image

There is a larger image on this thread. It is an interesting read. :wink:

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=264634

I just don't see any information on a contract deal with the Army and Navy in 1944. Now, that is not to say there were not deals between the two, just not published in documentation that I remember.
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Jeff H » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:00 pm

Thanks for that URL with all the USN Jeep pictures.

Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:33 pm

No problem, it is a very good website; lots of hard to find pictures. It is especially nice since they are organized by hood number.

Does anyone recognize the yellow letter font on my GPW hood? I have dug around but can't seem to find any official navy font lists.. I think the easiest identifier would be the fact that the 8 has a smaller circle on top, and wider on bottom.

Thanks
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627

Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:37 pm

The tailgate stencil was very difficult to read. Like the hood number, it is a non-standard font, and was difficult to uncover due to rust and dents. 1 3/4" tall, 5/16" stroke. Since the exact font is not known, I decided the best way to replicate it would be to trace it. Most of the letters/numbers are missing large sections, so tracing paper was not a viable option. I instead took a photo and then traced and filled in as best I could on CAD. I think it turned out pretty well for 3 hours of work!
Attachments
USN drawing.jpg
USN drawing.jpg (245.43 KiB) Viewed 2591 times
Last edited by Myers on Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627

Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:18 pm

removed
Last edited by Myers on Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627

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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by The Fireman » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:16 pm

Meyers,

The numbers may have been painted by hand in lieu of a stencil.

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Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:17 pm

removed
Last edited by Myers on Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627

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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Jim Gilmore » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:24 am

You wrote,

"....The tailgate stencil was very difficult to read. Like the hood number, it is a non-standard font,...."

Actually..this IS the standard font.......The hood number and these numbers are the correct font (style) of numbers used by the factory and by the Navy when they re-numbered the vehicle.
These were done with "stick on" type of stencil and there is no "web" between the sections of the numbers. The 8 is the correct style having the top smaller than the bottom. The is to differentiate it from a 3 if the entire number cannot be seen.
The stencils used at the time were a peel and stick type where you removed the backing paper and the stencil was "gummed" on the back and was pressed onto the hood. the the top sheet was removed and the stencil was painted over. When the paint was almost dry the stencil was removed. After the paint was dry a little gasoline or such solvent was used to remove any traces of the gum.

"......and was difficult to uncover due to rust and dents. 1 3/4" tall, 5/16" stroke. Since the exact font is not known, I decided the best way to replicate it would be to trace it. Most of the letters/numbers are missing large sections, so tracing paper was not a viable option. I instead took a photo and then traced and filled in as best I could on CAD. I think it turned out pretty well for 3 hours of work!...."

Rick Larson makes a stencil that is almost 100% correct for these numbers...contact him and he can cut the entire number for you. I have used these stencils many times and they work excellent.

Attached are two photos of a Navy GTB hood showing the same type of numbers.
DSCN3402_01.JPG
(222.41 KiB) Downloaded 1303 times
DSCN3401_01.JPG
(230.07 KiB) Downloaded 1303 times


Jim Gilmore

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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Jim Gilmore » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:54 am

Now...let's look at your vehicle's data...............

Plant: Richmond, CA

I do not have Ford data on this allotment of Reg. Numbers so I cannot determine conclusively what plant it was assembled in.

DOD: 1-44

Is this from the data plate? Is there a day stamped in there?

USA REG: 20439314

Contract W-648-374-2862

Frame SN: 161784
Engine SN: 161784
Engine Casting Code: K22311 (November 22 43)

Now we have a problem..........

GPW motor number GPW-161784 was assembled at the Ford Rouge Motor Building on 11/18/43.....

This date is from the actual Ford Motor Department records. The motor number indicates 11/18/43 but your casting date code (if correct) is 11/22/43......four days after the motor was assembled......

T84 Casting Code: L2243D (December 22nd 43?)
Distributor IGC 4705: 12X (December 43)
Generator GEG 5101D: 12X (December 43)


All of these were made a month or so after the motor was assembled.....

The DOD is also not "in line" with the motor build date being over 1- 1/2 months later...


Now....since the block could not have been cast after the motor was assembled there are a couple of possibilities..........

One is that the block was replaced by the military and was stamped with the old block motor number........

Or......more likely....the motor was assembled on 11-18-43 but had a defect........the motor was disassembled and the block scrapped. The motor number (161784) would have been used on a new block days or weeks later. That was standard procedure when a motor was defective. You would have (as an example) motor #177900 come down the line and right behind it would be #161784 followed by #17901 and on.....

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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Jim Gilmore » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:20 am

A question for the navy gurus.

I'm not a "Navy Guru" but I will try to answer some of these questions.......

What process did the Army contract jeeps that went to the navy go through? From what I've gathered, this jeep never was used by the Army. There are no stars or markings that suggest that the Army assigned it to a unit.

The presence of stars or no stars does not indicate whether the vehicle was used by the Army or not. Application of the national insignia (star) was up to the area commander. Many jeeps did not have stars applied when used by the Army.

The "NA" on the bumperette is the first "army" font and style of marking that I've found. Unfortunately the rest of the bumperettes rusted beneath the paint and there is no chance of recovering the stencils.

The NA white stenciling is on the factory OD, and is blotched over with forest green just like the blue drab numbers. They were covered the same time the yellow navy stencils were applied.

The NA may be for Navy Auxiliary....of course it may stand for many other things....

Which brings me to my question. Were the " Army contract - but navy bound" GPWs shipped to the Army and then given straight to the navy, or were they shipped directly from Ford to the navy? If they were initially sent to the Army, could the Army have stenciled something along the lines of " NAVY CONTRACT" on the bumperettes? I don't see why there would be a unit marking on the jeep but no stars. Also, it seems like a big coincidence that the unkmown marking starts with NA on what ended up being a NAVY jeep. I'm probably reading too far into this, but it's fun to go down the rabbit hole on occasion.

In the beginning.........of jeep production.... all the services and foreign Governments had their own contracts with the MFG's. This created a blockage for the services to get vehicles. If Willys was making MB's for the Marines then the Army had to wait for that contract to be finished for their contract to begin . When Ordnance took over the vehicle contracts they decided all vehicles would be procured under ORD contracts and then be distributed among the various branches of service and foreign Governments.

These vehicles were delivered from the factories to Ordnance Depots all over the country. From these depots the vehicles were shipped to whatever service or units that required them

Vehicles procured were given US Registration numbers and were delivered with these numbers applied . Many of these vehicles were put into Navy or Marine service with the original US Numbers still on the hood and were used that way without renumbering.There were exceptions such as a group of vehicles delivered to the Navy Department which did not have Reg. numbers applied by the factory.

Your vehicle was delivered under an ORD contract and US Reg. numbers were applied. When ownership was transferred to the Navy Department the old numbers were painted out and Navy numbers applied. This may have been done during the war or postwar .

Jim Gilmore

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