40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Modifications by service branch
Nick_
G-First Sergeant
G-First Sergeant
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location:

40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Nick_ » Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:37 pm

I found a very special Jeep and need some help figuring out its story.

Today I had the chance to check out the retired veteran at its resting place since it's purchase from Norfolk, Virginia. I've known about this Jeep since Hugh purchased his barn find MB as the owner's brother Jim owned this Navy Jeep. It started out as a 1953 CJ3A and was converted by Valentine. Jim told me the Jeep has been in this barn as long as he could remember and he's 55 years old, and the Jeep had been discharged 53 years ago. My best guess is that Jim's dad purchased the Jeep from surplus and had plans to work on it. The engine was removed and some side patch panels were purchased from Kaiser-Jeep. This is as far as he made it.

I'm fortunate the project was never finished because it remained all original. The Navy repainted the Jeep one time which is expected from active duty from 1953-1962. Having the original military paint is the coolest thing in the world to me (and will be preserved). Where are you going to find another one of these in original condition? It just doesn't happen. It has all the gauges including the hour meter and RPM. All the data plates are present and in beautiful condition. There is a few pieces of equipment inside the Jeep which goes over my head, and this is where I get lost. A monster generator-type piece is attached to the transfercase. In the passenger seat area is a large metal box with a Valentine tag on it (there's a bunch of screws holding the lid secured). There are two heavy gauge wires about an inch in diameter in this area which I can't remember quite where. In the back area is another box that has a heavy duty plug-in attached.

I apologize for the bad pictures, there wasn't any light in the barn and all I had was my phone. My dad and I are going to pick it up in 2 weeks after a Jeep club ride in the area, probably Feb 6th. I've searched all kinds of key terms and found a few threads around this type of Jeep but not much was available. Is it considered an APU Jeep? I need to find an F-head engine for sure but are there any other aircraft pieces? All of your help is greatly appreciated in finding out some information about this treasure. It might be a museum piece.

HD Gallery: https://imgur.com/a/LCz7B
20160122_164202.jpg
20160122_164202.jpg (97.89 KiB) Viewed 7041 times
20160122_164116.jpg
20160122_164116.jpg (80.84 KiB) Viewed 7041 times
20160122_163743.jpg
20160122_163743.jpg (67.69 KiB) Viewed 7042 times
20160122_163950.jpg
20160122_163950.jpg (90.92 KiB) Viewed 7042 times
Attachments
20160122_164018.jpg
20160122_164018.jpg (71.02 KiB) Viewed 7040 times
20160122_164135.jpg
20160122_164135.jpg (108.73 KiB) Viewed 7040 times
20160122_164141.jpg
20160122_164141.jpg (104.28 KiB) Viewed 7040 times


User avatar
Joe Friday
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1229
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:28 am
Location:

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Joe Friday » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:12 pm

Does the number on the serial tag on the passenger side firewall in the engine compartment match the serial pencilled on the hood?
2018 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #419

The Fireman
U.S.M.C. Veteran
U.S.M.C. Veteran
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:52 am
Location: Banjoland, So. Orygun Territorium

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by The Fireman » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:05 am

Nick,

This is an outstanding find. Wash it carefully, change fluids, do a brake job, new tires, get it running and then leave it alone and enjoy her. Please don't "restore" this classic, leave it as is. If and when you find out more, that is great, but please don't paint it or remove the original pencil writing, etc on the hood.

Frank
The Fireman
NRG

Nick_
G-First Sergeant
G-First Sergeant
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location:

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Nick_ » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:16 am

Joe Friday wrote:Does the number on the serial tag on the passenger side firewall in the engine compartment match the serial penciled on the hood?
Would you believe that was the only part I forgot to photograph? There is some writing on the hood that says:
SN 17-3099
USN 55-03397

There is also an A-1 53 marked on the hood in white.
The Fireman wrote: This is an outstanding find. Wash it carefully, change fluids, do a brake job, new tires, get it running and then leave it alone and enjoy her. Please don't "restore" this classic, leave it as is. If and when you find out more, that is great, but please don't paint it or remove the original pencil writing, etc on the hood.
Thank you! It's going to take a bit more than changing fluids and tires. The tranny tower is missing which left the internals to get pretty nasty; it's going to need rebuilt. My plan is to find a running F-head and radiator to power the Jeep again. The original paint is the reason why I bought the Jeep, that's the most important part about this.

I stayed up til about 3am last night extensively researching APU's to see what I could find. As far as I can tell, this is the only Valentine Welder APU built to nearly the same spec as the Szekely. There is some strong evidence relating to the L vs F-head engine, which I'll post once I have some other people check out before I sound crazy. Here is a comparison of the known APU's:

The O.E. Szekely gauges (white): RPM goes to 40 w/ the needle at nearly 360 degrees
The Valentine gauges (yellow): RPM goes to 50 w/ the needle at nearly 160 degrees
APU Gauges.jpg
APU Gauges.jpg (52.76 KiB) Viewed 6898 times
The Szekely (top) used the standard shift pattern plate with the addition of their generator instructions.
The Valentine (bottom) has all custom plates without much trace of the originals aside from a rusty hole.
APU Data Tag Comparison.jpg
APU Data Tag Comparison.jpg (131.56 KiB) Viewed 6898 times
This large Valentine plate is located on each side of the APU. The Szekely does not have a similar variant.
Valentine Logo.png
Valentine Logo.png (255.22 KiB) Viewed 6898 times
Also Dave at eWillys found it was built with an arc welder. I believe my generator is the remaining skeleton of this setup. Does anyone know if these pop up for sale?
1950 Popular Science Arc Welder.jpg
1950 Popular Science Arc Welder.jpg (142.69 KiB) Viewed 6898 times
Here is some info found on another site: http://www.jeepcollection.com/portfolio ... lys-cj-2a/
"GE WD3200B Welder
This Farnsworth and Middlekauff welder is designed to be belt driven from a center PTO and replaces the passenger seat. The welder unit came from GE and was ubiquitous and beloved in the era. Farnsworth and Middlekauff bought the units from GE and manufactured the kit for adaptation into the Jeep. This is the 200 amp model with a WD3200B GE unit that cost $624 installed in 1949. The 300 amp kit cost $813. That was big bucks in those days, about half the cost of the Jeep. This welder is not fully installed in the collection’s Jeep. The welder requires the installation of a special transfer case PTO with a four-pulley sheave and significant cutting of the floor panels. It came from a donor Jeep on which it had been installed back in the ‘40s right from the dealer. The unit has been tested and can still strike a mighty arc."
Arc Welder.jpg
Arc Welder.jpg (75.83 KiB) Viewed 6898 times
This photo shows the same setup in an MB, and also shows the same box the APU has in the passenger seat area:
WWII Jeep Arc Welder.jpg
WWII Jeep Arc Welder.jpg (54.6 KiB) Viewed 6898 times

User avatar
Joe Friday
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1229
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:28 am
Location:

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Joe Friday » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:09 am

I'm just thinking that the number handwritten on the hood is too high for a serial, so it may be the number that was stamped on the missing engine.
2018 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #419

Nick_
G-First Sergeant
G-First Sergeant
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location:

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Nick_ » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:01 pm

Luckily Tom had a picture of the serial number plate when he was acquiring information from the Jeep. It reads:
451-GB1-13918

This is a standard 1953 CJ3A serial number which adds even more proof the APU Jeep wasn't a true M38 like stated in the conversion company documents. Aron Pietch found information about part of the hood number stating 55-00000 was for MEPP (mobile electric power plant). Where does the 03397 come from?
Valentine APU CJ3A SN.jpg
Valentine APU CJ3A SN.jpg (120.41 KiB) Viewed 6793 times

User avatar
Joe Friday
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1229
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:28 am
Location:

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Joe Friday » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:15 pm

The 451GB1 prefix suggests this is a 1951 CJ3A, which is believable. Vehicles that were converted by outside contractors sometimes sit around for a while.
2018 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #419

User avatar
Fred Coldwell
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2408
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:12 am
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Fred Coldwell » Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:29 am

Nick:

Your new yellow jeep was never an arc welder jeep as pictured in the Valentine ads your posted. Instead, it was an APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) generator jeep built by Valentine and used to start aircraft on airfields and aircraft carriers. To stay on track, stop looking at welder jeeps and focus on APU jeeps for aircraft. Also, I believe it used a "L" head engine (flat head) and not a "F" head engine (raised head). Good luck and have fun with your new project.
Happy Jeep Trails,

Fred Coldwell
1944 CJ2-09 - X33
1945 CJ2-26 - X50
1944 Dodge T233 CC
1945 Dodge T233 Utility
MVPA #283C

Beers
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:41 pm
Location: Orinda, California

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Beers » Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:51 am

What a great find Nick, thanks for posting some photos (and keep them coming!) :)
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43

Nick_
G-First Sergeant
G-First Sergeant
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location:

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Nick_ » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:17 am

Fred Coldwell wrote: Your new yellow jeep was never an arc welder jeep as pictured in the Valentine ads your posted. Instead, it was an APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) generator jeep built by Valentine and used to start aircraft on airfields and aircraft carriers. To stay on track, stop looking at welder jeeps and focus on APU jeeps for aircraft. Also, I believe it used a "L" head engine (flat head) and not a "F" head engine (raised head). Good luck and have fun with your new project.
Hey Fred, thanks for the input and ideas on figuring out what this somewhat unknown Jeep is. Where do you see a reason to think it was a generator Jeep and not a welder? From my understanding an APU includes a welder since it still has mobile power but I may be incorrect. Here is some documentation on Valentine's Copyrights stating, "welder unit model 2080 for installation on M38 1/4 4x4 trucks."
1953 Valentine Copyright.jpg
1953 Valentine Copyright.jpg (105.78 KiB) Viewed 6728 times
Also could a welding Jeep utilize the power from the generator to start an aircraft? Here is the only picture of a Valentine Jeep I have found on the internet. It's throwing me for a loophole because it looks like the Jeep is starting the aircraft, and the hood bumps on Valentines are identical unlike the Szekely APU's. More on that later.
Korean War APU 5.jpg
Korean War APU 5.jpg (105.42 KiB) Viewed 6728 times
Another thing I'm going to disagree on is that the Jeep had an L-head. I've scavenged the internet the past few nights and found some ideas about L vs F heads in the APU's but will post that when it's done. This Jeep has the modified hood to fit the big carburetor of the F-head engine. I don't see why else someone would go through the effort of hacking open the hood and adding a bump to it. This hole is in the perfect location for that big carb. I don't think that is a coincidence.
APU F-Head.jpg
APU F-Head.jpg (137.63 KiB) Viewed 6728 times

User avatar
Fred Coldwell
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2408
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:12 am
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Fred Coldwell » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:41 am

Nick_ wrote: Hey Fred, thanks for the input and ideas on figuring out what this somewhat unknown Jeep is. Where do you see a reason to think it was a generator Jeep and not a welder? From my understanding an APU includes a welder since it still has mobile power but I may be incorrect. Here is some documentation on Valentine's Copyrights stating, "welder unit model 2080 for installation on M38 1/4 4x4 trucks."
Nick:

Valentine Welding and Manufacturing Co. made arc welders for jeeps, true, but no arc welder was installed on your jeep. Valentine as a manufacturer also made generators. The data plates on your yellow jeep state "Plant - Electric Power, Self-Propelled Type NA-4" and "DC Power Generator". So in Navy talk, your jeep was a mobile electric power plant (a power generating jeep), not an arc welder jeep.
Nick_ wrote: Also could a welding Jeep utilize the power from the generator to start an aircraft? Here is the only picture of a Valentine Jeep I have found on the internet. It's throwing me for a loophole because it looks like the Jeep is starting the aircraft, and the hood bumps on Valentines are identical unlike the Szekely APU's. More on that later.
Not recommended. IMO, trying to start an aircraft with an arc welder jeep would weld the aircraft engine internally and render the aircraft inoperable. If such dual use was possible, Valentine would not have made two types of jeeps, arc welder jeeps and power generator jeeps.
Nick_ wrote: Another thing I'm going to disagree on is that the Jeep had an L-head. I've scavenged the internet the past few nights and found some ideas about L vs F heads in the APU's but will post that when it's done. This Jeep has the modified hood to fit the big carburetor of the F-head engine. I don't see why else someone would go through the effort of hacking open the hood and adding a bump to it. This hole is in the perfect location for that big carb. I don't think that is a coincidence.
You are correct. I've never looked under the hood of a 1950's APU jeep before, but it certainly is a "F" head engine in there. Thanks for educating me.
Happy Jeep Trails,

Fred Coldwell
1944 CJ2-09 - X33
1945 CJ2-26 - X50
1944 Dodge T233 CC
1945 Dodge T233 Utility
MVPA #283C

User avatar
Joe Friday
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1229
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:28 am
Location:

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Joe Friday » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:37 am

I suspect that when a parts manual for the Valentine APU's surfaces that it will have an engine part number that corresponds to the special industrial motors produced, and that in this case it will be an F head.

The 3 wheel units were Fhead, I don't know what the 4 wheel units were.



I tried to find my copy, but no luck so far.

The APU DC voltage and amperage would not be compatible to weld.
2018 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #419

Nick_
G-First Sergeant
G-First Sergeant
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location:

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Nick_ » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:34 pm

Here's an idea I've been working on the past few days. I'd appreciate it if you guys would check it out and throw some ideas around: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6edWO ... sp=sharing if you can't view it directly on that page, look for a down arrow on the top bar to download it.

A new APU with the l-head. It's all pretty interesting and I tried to include as much as I could in that file.
1951 Popular Science APU L Head.jpg
1951 Popular Science APU L Head.jpg (127.81 KiB) Viewed 6684 times

hugh hedrick
G-Staff Sergeant
G-Staff Sergeant
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:09 am
Location:

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by hugh hedrick » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:23 pm

You need a hat and goggles like that guy has nick!

Bob W
G-Major
G-Major
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 4:36 pm
Location: Monticello, NY
Contact:

Re: 40yr Barn Find Original Navy Jeep

Post by Bob W » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:53 am

Very cool APU Jeep you have there! In my limited research on these APUs it seems like there are a bunch of different versions. I included a Willys press release about Szekely APUs, dated 10-4-50, below. It looks like they were perfecting them for quite some time. I think that the F-head APUs were probably equipped with that engine at the Willys factory. Remember that the upfitters did not receive "regular" production CJ-3As to modify as APUs. Those CJ-3A would have been specially equipped (and/or not equipped) for the task. F-head engines were not available in production before the 1950 model year so this could be one explanation for the L-head APUs. Or perhaps some APU versions didn't require as much power. Also check out these interesting O. E. Szekely US patents, numbers 2,500,216 filed June 4, 1948 and 2,559,379 filed February 5, 1949.


Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
_______________________________________
Bob W
The CJ-3A Information Page
The Great Willys Picnic


Post Reply

Return to “Jeeps used by: USMC, USN, USCG (-NO EBAY-CRAIGSLIST-COMMERCIAL SALES-)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 49 guests