More fun than uncrating a Jeep? Uncrating a P-47 !

and other stuff up in the air
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49T&C
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More fun than uncrating a Jeep? Uncrating a P-47 !

Post by 49T&C » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:06 pm



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Re: More fun than uncrating a Jeep? Uncrating a P-47 !

Post by waayfast » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:47 am

Amazing that the beast fits in a crate that small. Lots of time spent I'm sure getting that designed so well.

I was taking my flight training at Ed Boardman's Flying Service on Meacham Field, Ft Worth TX in 1977/1978. Stayed in a Motel across the street and walked right by a complete, intact Bubble top P-47 parked out in the weeds all by it self every day. Looked totally abandoned but surely someone owned it.
Just wish I had bought it back then (yeah rrrriiiight!)

Another YouTube video, "P-39 Airacobra Assembly Overseas in World War II" shows the P-39 being built from a crate in the Pacific. At :53 check out the Cletrac M2 Medium High Speed Tractor pulling the crate into position under the gantry crane.
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Re: More fun than uncrating a Jeep? Uncrating a P-47 !

Post by Wolfman » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:05 am

Interesting video. I have seen several "how to" Military videos. First time for a P-47. 40+ minutes long. Just now had time to watch it all.
Pretty straight forward for military training videos. Basic tools and a lot of warm bodies and elbow grease.
Several points I had to laugh at, like the " don't raise the bridge, lower the water approach to getting the landing gear down. Dig a hole under gear ass. and once down and locked, raise the aircraft and fill the hole back in. Set the aircraft back down. Now it is safely off the shipping crate. I knew I was digging all those holes and filling them back in, during basic training, for a reason.
One I am still wondering about. When installing the wings, the fixtures were aligned with a drift, then a full length bushing was installed through the wing and fuselage fixtures, followed by a bolt through te bushing. ??? Why not just use a bolt the proper size to begin with ???
Another one. I was taught, bolt heads go forward or up unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, but the wing attach bolts were installed, front bolts, head to the rear. Rear bolts, head to the front. ???? Still wondering what the good reason is ??
Any one have a clue ???
I enjoyed the video.
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Re: More fun than uncrating a Jeep? Uncrating a P-47 !

Post by motto » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:48 pm

The reason for the split bushing and tapered bolt is to remove any clearance ( a fancy word for looseness ) in the assembly. When you look at the small distance between the upper and lower attach fittings and the length of the wing the leverage is enormous, the stresses extremely high and any movement magnified many times.
The reason for the bolt orientation appears to be simply for ease of access to the nut. The nut is positioned where the gap is widening due to airfoil contour. Bolt head forward or aft makes no difference once installed.

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Re: More fun than uncrating a Jeep? Uncrating a P-47 !

Post by Wolfman » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:07 am

Got it. Thanks David !
I agree. The leverage on the wing fittings and bolts has to be tremendous, especially when loaded in a high G turn or pull up.
I was considering it might be a back door way to increase the bearing surface of the fastener and increase the fastener shear limit.
Guess I missed the part about the bushing being split and the bolt being tapered. Was probably still in shock watching the mechanic driving the bolt home, into the fitting and bushing, with a the big hammer !
I never considered hammering on a wing fitting as a good practice.
Installing a loose fitting, split bushing instead of a close tolerance bolt would make installing a huge, heavy wing, being held up by a bunch of G.I.s, on a remote Pacific island beach. a lot easier.
Bolt head orientation may be something I picked up on at the local airport. Not sure why the head should be forward but "head up" had to do with gravity in case the nut came off. It can happen. Never reuse lock nuts and improperly installed cotter pins in castle nuts can wear and fall out. I have seen cotter or split pull pins in hand grenade handles wear and come out. That makes for a real bad day !!
When flying, I try to keep as much in my favor as I can. Walking home is not an option !
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Re: More fun than uncrating a Jeep? Uncrating a P-47 !

Post by ng19delta » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:51 am

motto wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:48 pm
The reason for the split bushing and tapered bolt is to remove any clearance ( a fancy word for looseness ) in the assembly. When you look at the small distance between the upper and lower attach fittings and the length of the wing the leverage is enormous, the stresses extremely high and any movement magnified many times.
The reason for the bolt orientation appears to be simply for ease of access to the nut. The nut is positioned where the gap is widening due to airfoil contour. Bolt head forward or aft makes no difference once installed.

David
They had a problem with this concept on the early F-86: there was a series of crashes, and I think some were fatal, which were traced to the bolts near the aileron. It was found that the design called for them to be installed reverse to convention- bolt head down, rather than up, and they had been installed upside down- with the head up... This caused the aileron to jam against the bolt in certain circumstances. It all boiled down to one man assembling them on the line and putting those bolts in wrong intentionally! When he was interviewed, he stated, "Bolts ALWAYS go in head up, and I believed the plans were wrong, so I put them in the right way." I think he probably lost his job...

Scott

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Re: More fun than uncrating a Jeep? Uncrating a P-47 !

Post by Wolfman » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:09 am

When I first read this, Scott, my 1st reaction was, how could a bolt thread, washer and nut cause leas interference on top that a bolt head ??
:idea: Then the light came on ! ( coffee kicked in)
Problem was not on top.
It was on the bottom !!
I always heard F-86s had a bad reputation but never heard why.
Now, maybe I know.
It was the "nut" installing the wing attach bolt.
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Re: More fun than uncrating a Jeep? Uncrating a P-47 !

Post by twinflyer17 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:15 am

ng19delta wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:51 am
It all boiled down to one man assembling them on the line and putting those bolts in wrong intentionally! When he was interviewed, he stated, "Bolts ALWAYS go in head up, and I believed the plans were wrong, so I put them in the right way." I think he probably lost his job...

Scott
Wow, scary and unfortunate thing to think about...
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Re: More fun than uncrating a Jeep? Uncrating a P-47 !

Post by Wolfman » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:29 am

As I was taught. General rule of thumb.
Bolt heads go up or forward, "unless", there is a good reason to do otherwise.
Was also taught, if the plans said the head goes down, the head goes down.
If there was a problem doing what you were told, you don't just take it upon yourself to make a change.
A second or third opinion ( or more ) was requested, and if the group decided to change, then you considered it.
Think at some point in time, we all have run into someone who thought they were smarter than everybody else. :roll:
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