M8 Greyhound Project Price?

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ChaseR83
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M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by ChaseR83 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:41 pm

Hey guys,

I'll be honest and upfront... I'm a newbie when it comes to armor. I've always wanted to own and restore a tank... but that is not in my budget. What I could possibly afford is some kind of armored car. I've been researching Ferrets but I'm also taking a look at M8's. Ferrets are interesting but something with more seats would be a plus.

I've read through old posts on this forum looking for pricing info.... and it seems that restored M8's seem to be selling for 80-120k depending on condition and whether or not the 37mm is registered and live... is that about correct?

How about project condition vehicles? What is the approximate pricing on a project? I know project conditions vary wildly but lets say:

Fairly complete... de-milled breech.... good barrel.... needing total resto?

Missing large parts.... no gun or turret.... needing total resto?

Reading through old posts it sounds like you can drop 25k in a heartbeat trying to assemble a turret with components.

I've been reading through the excellent thread started by Big D and following his M8 restoration.... other than his cut in half hull the rest of the work is right in my comfort zone after years of auto restoration projects.

I'm also very familiar with US laws concerning weapons as I have been collecting Mg/Cannon parts kits for years. I'm familiar with the regs concerning DDs.

Are there any projects left in the US or all they all coming from overseas? Being inexperienced the idea of importing a project seems daunting... plus a project with a good 37mm barrel or breech would have to have it cut to be imported.

What is the US parts availability? Reading through old posts it appears that most people are able to track down what they need.

I'd appreciate any thoughts/advice/opinions.


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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by DDTrustee » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:28 pm

My two cents worth.....

-haven't seen any M8 project vehicles for sale in a while - like 4-5 years
-have seen M20 project vehicles but not lately.
-your price range for restored and running w/ or w/o live main gun is about correct
-good, functional barrel for the M6 37mm gun in the M8 run north of $6-7,000 these days....barrels are available if you have the $$$ for one.
-M6 rings (the registered part for the M8 37mm gun) are actually available and cheaper than the M3 ring on the towed gun - est value $3,500-5,000
-JXD Hercules engine stuff and even whole engines for restorations are generally available for the M8...not too expensive
-If you find an M8 project - JUMP ON IT.... IF YOU WANT ONE - those are scarce...if all the bits are there including engine core est value -$50,000 and up
-Everything is about condition-condition-condition....there is nothing outrageously unavailable for an M8 restoration except brake cylinders and original hydrovacs for the brakes,,,,those parts require you to referb old ones and hydrovac repair kits are scarce or unavailable. Replacement hydrovacs are around. Used Ford M8 brake cylinders can be refeerbished for a price - $50-80 each (6 wheels - two cylinders per wheel)
-Wiring is simple. The clutch and throttle slave cylinders are a pain and die if not used regularly so that the mechanical replacement kit is a nice option for M8s.
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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by Big D » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:13 am

Hi there ChaseR83,

I agree with what DaninNM is saying. The M8 projects seem to be drying up. I got mine in 2015 and I’ve only seen a couple since and the prices are increasing all the time. What they are selling for now is a lot more than I paid in 2015, so it just goes to show they are not getting anymore affordable.

I looked for M8’s and M20’s in the U.S. for quite a while and I only ever came across running and relatively complete vehicles which were well out of my price range. I’d suggest Europe is the place to shop if you want a project vehicle, assuming you can get it in to the US okay.

There are a couple of M8’s on Milweb at the moment, which are both in Italy. One is relatively complete with no gun, at an asking price of 33,000 EUROs. By the time you got something like that over to the US I guess you’d be up around $45-$50k USD. You’d also need the gun, but these do come up for sale from time to time.

There is also an M8 hull on Milweb with axles and diffs etc. You’d still need gun and engine etc, but Hercules engine parts are readily available in the US.

Like Dan said, most parts are still out there. You just have to be patient (and persistent) with some. You have to keep asking and often in the circles and groups that don’t necessarily advertise parts. I’d have to say, I found the search for M8 parts easier than the search for parts for my M3A1 Scout Car restoration.

As the saying goes, ‘They’re not making them anymore”. Go for it!
Darryl Lennane
NZ

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1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by DDTrustee » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:06 am

good info on the European M8s for sale.....absolutely no problem getting that stuff in the USA. The insurance policy is getting a Form 6 approved by BATF but without guns etc. the new rule at the state dept. will allow old US armor back in the US without a hitch. It used to be an issue but a change in the law lets stuff in older than 1956.
Shipping from Europe is cheap right now....Containers to Houston from Liverpool run around 1800 last time I checked for a 40' one. You need one of the major international freight companies to walk you thru the process and do your customs forms and clearances but they do not charge much - $400-600 for all their services and they can insure that the goods get to the port before you pay....a bank can help with the 'sight draft' payable to the seller when the goods are delivered to the port unless you trust your seller - most in western Europe are honest....some problems with eastern Europe but those are mostly OK too.
Try MAINFREIGHT for European shipments - find their ph no. on the web ....the people there will set up a free account and get you going in the right direction.
form 6 assistance try Mr. Bennett at 707-961-0182....he can get it done for you with proper pictures and vehicle description.
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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by ChaseR83 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:05 pm

Thank you for the replies gentlemen,

I really had no idea that shipping something from oversees could be that affordable... getting something delivered to port of Houston makes transport considerably easier. I've been looking at Halftrack projects as well... but the thought of having one towed halfway across the country is less than appealing.

Texas is a tough place to be into antique anything IMO, I've had to drive to Wisconsin before to find car parts (no fun) and I've never spotted any "free-range" armor lying about in the state.

I'd love to snag the more complete one in Italy... but 45-50k is just out of my price range. Doesn't leave much to gather gun parts and do the restoration before you exceed the cost of restored example (which I know always happens with restorations).

I may inquire about the other one though.

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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by DDTrustee » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:20 pm

prices on container shipping may have gone up but that was the cost in the fall....seems the freight out of Asia to elsewhere is more expensive because of demand but not from Europe to the USA.
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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by John Neuenburg » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:44 pm

You mentioned Ferret but wanting more seats. If you have decided on an M8 don't read any farther.

How about an M20 Armored Utility Car? I don't know what M20s sell for but there were fewer than half made than M8s. Are they more rare today? No doubt some people are attracted to the M8 turret and cannon, and they appear in more WWII photos. That drives the value up. The M20 has most of the same impact in public as an M8, and probably less alarming to some "civilians" if the .50 is covered or removed. Hard to conceal the M8 gun! The M8 is badass all the time, which is why we like them. Great for typical displays but the M20 would be best in Austin parked outside a brew-pub.

You said $45-50K is just beyond your budget for a M8 restoration project and you don't talk about your budget for the finished vehicle. An M20 is usually less expensive than an M8 all else being equal. In fact some people will find the M20 attributes more functional and to them worth more than an M8. Like if they want more than four people in it.

Folks wanting wheeled armor have to decide the basics: tank-like or truck-like? Hull or frame and body? Climb on or enter through a door? In US parlance, the latter is a White Scout Car. The former is M8, M20, and V100 or Ferret types if you like 1960s+. What do you plan to do with it? Climb into one and imagine what it's like doing what you plan to do. M8 has forward facing turret seats that go up and down. Riders have great visibility of the road but little room to move around and you get a big grease ring around your $600 tankers jacket. Playing with the turret traverse and gun elevation is fun. It takes more effort to get into the turret than into the fighting compartment of the M20. Even harder if you have a MG ring above the turret. This might rule out your most important passengers. The M8 has seats for four, period.

An M20 has seating for five, and if four are narrow, seven. Easier to get into. You can't see out too well if you are seated in the back. Standing in the fighting compartment is the way to go for parades or cruising around the MV events. Playing with the .50 on the ring is fun, and show-and-tell with the bazooka is good. M20 is great for radio fans because they can be installed on both sides and there is plenty of elbow room to play with them plus a nice but hard to find map table that folds down. Good for beverages!

Do you want to drive it on the open road? Have hills in your area? The M20 is around 2,000 pounds lighter and that means better acceleration, braking, not downshifting as early, and probably more top speed but my M8 driving was not at high speeds and I don't know if they will achieve the 56 mph top speed. M20 will, assuming no head winds or tight brakes. Be careful on downslopes because there is no governor.

Brakes and other hydraulics can be dealt with as has been published here and in Army Motors.

Hope this helps!

I edited some sentences that were misleading about values.
Last edited by John Neuenburg on Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by ChaseR83 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:33 pm

John Neuenburg wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:44 pm

You said $45-50K is just beyond your budget for a M8 restoration project and you don't talk about your budget for the finished vehicle. You would probably like the final cost of a nicely restored M20, or an older, parade-ready restoration that requires little or no extra expense and costs less than that, unless it is more original than the newer restoration. Like one having no re-created armor or sheet metal. In fact some people will find the M20 attributes more functional and to them worth more than an M8.
Thank you for the reply John.

I know an M8 restoration will be very, very costly... its just easier to swallow spread out over years instead of all at once :D

The M8 is the closest to a tank I could ever hope to own... I've always wanted a tank, I've convinced myself an armored car is slightly more practical.

But its true... its the turret and the 37mm that do it for me.

I've collected rare MG parts kits for years and built a few as semi autos... but I'm ready to let a good portion go to help finance a registered DD. Despite $50 a piece brass and limited places to shoot. At least I already have the 1919 and parts of the M2 8)

Being able to take the M8 to Knob Creek or one of the other big MG/Cannon shoots would be pretty much the top of my bucket list.

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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by DDTrustee » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:34 am

Good critique of the differences in wheeled armor! If M8s click your switch and you need a project - start shopping on milweb and make some contacts with the Brits...they know the guys on the continent that might have a project for you. The M8 is still in use in central America and you may find a candidate down there as well......not as many people enthralled about WWII vehicles in C.A. too...possibly making a candidate cheaper there. I'd guess there are M8 projects in Greece where my M8 and M3A1 came from. Check my PM for further info on contacts.
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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by John Neuenburg » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:23 am

Ah yes, more tank-like. If you want a laugh, go way back on the G and look for a long thread I think started by Jon Heyworth about escapades across the channel with his M8. There were a large group of M8s in the UK that would go to big events in Europe. The thread had a "which is better" theme and he used to brag about impressing the female French reservists with his "big gun." I was pretty new to my M20 at the time, and thinking about the bazooka which is standard equipment, said, "2.36" > 37mm." That was when I started calling my car a "M20A1 Tactical Hot Tub" and tried pinning the nickname "Tactical Bidet" on the M8 but doesn't look like that stuck.

Yes Dan, C-A and Greece might still have some M8s. Those might have diesel conversions.

I deleted a paragraph about performance on the road. Already mentioned that earlier!
Last edited by John Neuenburg on Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by Austringer » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:10 am

Go with a V100, I drove mine 100 miles to a show and cruised about 62mph according to the GPS. She will slow down on hills a little but not much.
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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by ChaseR83 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:23 pm

John Neuenburg wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:23 am

I forgot a key piece to my post - for someone planning long road trips especially if any hills at all, the M20 should perform better. The M8 is about 2,000 pounds heavier. That's the main reason why chose a M20 because I planned to make 150 mile round trips to the Tower Park meet and there are some hills in the North Bay Area. I drove a M8 at a couple events including a freeway stretch with a hill. One brake was dragging a bit so I don't know for sure how one should run at speed, but knowing simple physics and how my car runs, no doubt a M8 will be slower up a hill and might not reach 50 on the flat. But most owners don't drive on the open road that much, so it won't matter to them.
No worries about hills around here... the Texas Gulf Coast is about as flat as a pancake. I live in the city but my folks live in a small town about 25 mins away. My father just built a very large shop with the anticipation of retiring in a few years. When I suggested we restore some vintage armor together... showed him the M8, showed him M8 prices... his only reply was "At least it doesn't have tracks so it won't tear up the driveway :lol: "

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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by Loganr » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:19 am

Just wanting to throw in here
Most of these vehicles are for a smaller generation of people . If your a bigger fella ( I'm 6.6 and 250 :( )
I would go to some shows/ events and see how they feel.
Nothing worse than trying to fit in the driver's hold of a m18

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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by Austringer » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:24 am

I'm 5 9 and when I was a light lighter (don't want to talk about that), I thought it was a pain getting in and out of the oval driver and asst. driver's hatches on an early sherman. Like ball turret gunners, guess they picked small guys to crew armor back then.
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Re: M8 Greyhound Project Price?

Post by DDTrustee » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:06 am

Objection: I'm 6'1" and way overweight :x and I can get in and out of the M18 driver's seat (the operative word is SLOWLY :mrgreen: )....the M8 seat is harder because there is nothing to stand on inside the hull around the seat!!!!!! LOL
In the M8 the bigger issue is the closeness of the seat to the clutch and brake pedals.....tall guys have their knees in their face in order to get a foot on either one....solved with a bracket that lets us move the seat back 6 inches (if the jerry can is removed so the turret seat holder doesn't bump into the can when rotating the turret.)
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