Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

[dgrev]

Despite doing everything the sandblaster said by way of wrapping and tapeing, the stuff still got where I did not want it to get.

That was in roughly 1990, I am still finding black grit even now!

Last year my master switch, which by the way, I never use, crapped itself. On taking it apart, I poured out
probably a tea spoon full of grit. How the grit in that steel box managed to jump up and work its way
between the contacts of the switch, is a mystery.

Regards
Doug

[mosehring]

look good , yell if you need any parts

militarytankparts.com

[Big D]

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the reply. That's not the answer I was hoping you would give me, but it is telling advice.....

Okay, I might have to rethink the plan on how to attack this. I don't want to undo all the good work on those axles and the diffs. I'll see what I can come up with.


Hi Mosehring,

Thanks for that. I will send you a PM now.

[rjbeamer]

For less than $200.00 you can make a simple metal frame work on each end of the car and use steel castors. Does not have to look pretty and it will allow you to roll up onto a roll on tow truck for transport and around the shop. At all costs I would keep my axles away from the sand blasting area. McMaster Carr has steel casters #22945T58 & 22945T98 for about $44.00 ea, 1200 lb cap. Harbor freight might have some that you can use at a lower cost.

Roger.

[dgrev]

Roger

Your suggestion is good, but you are forgetting he is in NZ not USA. I would suggest the cost of what you are describing would come to at least $1,000 if not $1,500.

It would cost me nearly $80 just to buy 4 furniture castors that are rated at $10kg each. The big heavy suckers easily cost over $100ea.

As to steel cost, I have just had to pay $380 for 4 off 2" x 2" x 1/16" x 20' square hollow tube (for fence posts).

We don't have Harbor Freight or McMaster Carr and postage cost from the USA usually exceeds the cost of the item. Many parts have cost me more in postage than their purchase cost.

Regards
Doug

For less than $200.00 you can make a simple metal frame work on each end of the car and use steel castors. Does not have to look pretty and it will allow you to roll up onto a roll on tow truck for transport and around the shop. At all costs I would keep my axles away from the sand blasting area. McMaster Carr has steel casters #22945T58 & 22945T98 for about $44.00 ea, 1200 lb cap. Harbor freight might have some that you can use at a lower cost.

Roger.

[Big D]

Hi Roger and Doug,

Thanks for the replies. Roger - I like your idea, but as Doug says, I think the cost will be prohibitive. Potentially I could pick up some second hand gear that might do the job but with the expense involved, I have decided to stick to the truck and the crane.

I visited the blasters again today and dropped off the front springs and some more axle parts. They do have a fork hoist that is apparently capable of lifting 2.5 tons so I figure that I will get the hull there by a truck with a crane, use the crane to get the hull on the deck and then get the blasters to move the hull to their blasting area with the forks.

It's not a big deal in terms of a change in my plans. I will still go ahead and complete all the axles and spring assemblies so that they will be ready for when the hull comes back, and then I can mount the hull straight onto them. The blasters actually do my painting as well so what I'll do is get the hull fully completed with hatches and floor etc done, so that it can be blasted, primed and painted in one go.

Thanks for all the input.

[Big D]

Hi all,

Attached are a few more photos of some work done in the last couple of days, as well as some parts I need to blast and paint. I’m at the point where in between other jobs I need to get some of these parts painted in their final colour so that they can be bolted in once the hull is back from blasting and painting.

I don’t think I’ve seen it anywhere else on these forums but I’m after confirmation of the paint colour on the various hull parts and internals on the M8. I have accumulated many photographs of restored M8s and have noted quite a few differences in paint colour on various items between different M8’s. As an example, I have an uncut 37mm gun mount which I was told came out of an unrestored M8. However, it appears to have original white paint on it and I haven’t seen any others with a white gun mount.

This is the list I’ve come up with so far and the colours and variations I’ve noted. You’ll see that I have seen both olive drab and white colouring on some parts:

• hull inner walls - white
• hull floor - olive drab
• turret inner walls - olive drab
• turret seats - olive drab?/white?
• turret seat frame - olive drab?/white?
• turret hold down roller covers - white
• traverse gear - white
• 37mm gun - olive drab
• 37mm gun mount - olive drab?/white?
• 37mm gun parts - olive drab
• 37mm ready racks - olive drab
• 37mm spare parts box - white
• .30 cal spare parts box - white
• oddments container - white
• binocular container - white
• grenade boxes - white
• flare box - white
• turret support rollers - white
• ring gear - olive drab?/white?
• water can - olive drab
• fire extinguisher bracket - olive drab?/white?
• Driver and co-driver seats - olive drab?/white?
• water can bracket - olive drab?/white?
• hydrovac - white

Does anyone have any comment either way on what I’ve recorded so far? I’d like to get the paint colour right first time.

Thanks.

[dgrev]

Darryl

Quick answer = how long is a piece of string.

Long answer = Depends on what point in production. IIRC the manuals show early production. So what is true of them, may not be true of late production.

Bovvy Greyhound is supposedly as built. I think it may be early or earlyish.

First time a vehicle is rebuilt, all bets are off. The rebuilders do whatever is most convenient for them unless the contract specifies items coloured a certain way.

I worked on the rule - anything visible from above would had to be green not white. So that included driver / co-driver area. However I did paint internal sides of hull white even alongside driver / co and alongside turret.
It would just be too dark in there if that area was green.

All my gun and mount is green.
Turret bearing shields are white, I must paint compass direction markings on them.
Inside turret white.
Basket, seats and floor green.
Instrument panel green.
Behind driver / co heads green.

Mostly green interior would have been best for camo from planes, but lousy to crew.

At the end of the day, it is your vehicle, do as you want, just don't paint it fluro pink.......

Regards
Doug

[Big D]

Hi Doug,

Interesting comments. I like pink, but not that much.

What you say about visibility from above makes sense and that’s why I would have thought the turret seats and frame would be OD. Most of the restored ones I’ve seen though are white. One black and white photo I have shows the turret seats and seat towers as white, while the lower part of the frame is OD.

So do you have the inside of your turret painted in white as well?

I haven’t seen a gun or mount that was painted white, thus my interest in the colour of the uncut gun mount I have here. I have seen a black and white photo with the .30 cal ammo tray painted white though.

[dgrev]

Darryl

Keep in mind that "most of the restored ones" usually equals "what the owner wanted". Big difference between that and "original".

My turret is painted white on the underside of the turret roof and on the turret walls. I elected to do so based on
best info to hand back in early 1990s which was when I restored it.

My vehicle would have been through multiple rebuilds, so nothing that was on it can be relied on
for originality.

The only thing visible from above that was
white to the best of my knowledge would have been the bearing covers (so that the compass direction markings could be seen)
and the the interior side walls of the vehicle for reasons previously stated.

Then there is the early/late production thing. Early war, we still feared Luftwaffe, late war, we didn't so early war much
higher chance of what I write above being correct. Late war, much less chance. Add to that Bovvy Greyhound is to best
óf my knowledge ONLY known unrebuilt vehicle. So it would be default reference, but as I said, IIRC it is fairly early
production. You could do a search and see if there are pics online of its interior.

Somewhere there is/was probably a document that spelled all this out. Actually, I reckon I know who would have this info. But
he is notorious for not sharing.

The only 37mm mounts I have seen that were painted white from factory were Staghound and Grant /Lee. All Stuart ones
(so same era as Greyhound) that I have seen that were non-rebuilt were green.

Regards
Doug

Hi Doug,

Interesting comments. I like pink, but not that much.

What you say about visibility from above makes sense and that’s why I would have thought the turret seats and frame would be OD. Most of the restored ones I’ve seen though are white. One black and white photo I have shows the turret seats and seat towers as white, while the lower part of the frame is OD.

So do you have the inside of your turret painted in white as well?

I haven’t seen a gun or mount that was painted white, thus my interest in the colour of the uncut gun mount I have here. I have seen a black and white photo with the .30 cal ammo tray painted white though.

[Big D]

Hi all,

Just a quick update showing some work done in the last few weeks.

I am still awaiting the axle housings to come back from the blasters. I have new diff carrier bearings, pinion shaft oil seals and bearings, and axle oil seals to go into the housings.

All the hubs have been cleaned up and primed. Interestingly, there was a mix of original US, French and Italian wheel bearings. One of the US ones was a little rough but I think I will get away with it considering the limited use this vehicle will get. The torsion bar, torque rods and steering U joints have also been cleaned up and are ready to fit/paint.

In between time, I have fully restored the turret seats. These were painted white on OD and the remnants of the black lettering for ‘CARBINE’ was still there under the white paint. The seat towers required some new spring retainers at the bottom of the towers which I have fabricated. All the rollers were locked up so I had to heat them up to get them off. All roll freely now. The seat pans were corroded so I removed these and replaced the corroded pieces of metal. I need to make up the padded seat bases and backs now.

With the exception of the spring I need for the sliding gear, the traverse mechanism is all set to fit. The gun mount has been cleaned up and painted, albeit in a shade I am not happy with yet. I’ll tidy that up later.

I have started work on the hatches. The hull has one of the front hatches fitted and I have two hatches to choose from for the other side. I started removing the frozen visor parts off these today and I am still working out which hatch to fit. One is rougher than the other one but has some hinges on it that I think I can work with. The other one is tidier overall but needs both hinges fabricated.

The visor assemblies need to be completely rebuilt on both the front hatch already fitted and the one I am going to fit. What a battle to get those little nuts off that had corroded. I need to fit new studs and spacers for the straps and fabricate the locking pin assembly.

At some stage, someone has stripped the hull of its original top hatches by cutting a square around each hinge. I have two top hatches to replace the missing ones. One of these has been removed from another hull by cutting horizontally right across the width of the hatch under both hinges, so I can shape the metalwork around the hinge mounts on this one to fit the cut outs on the hull fairly easily. The other hatch has been really knocked around with the mounting plate and hinges all twisted. I had to cut the hinges off that and will have to straighten them or rebuild them before I can fit that hatch.

I have a few questions about the hull and the hatches.

• I will need to fabricate new visors and straps for the side ports on the hull. Are these side visors and straps etc, all the same size as the port assemblies in the front hatches?

• Has anyone rebuilt the locking pin assembly for the visors? Alternatively, has anyone stripped one and has photos?

• Has anyone rebuilt the rotating handle on the top hatches? This seems like it would have had some sort of spring loading in the mount and an indent on the end so it would lock in the folded up position and in the 90 degrees position. Am I correct with that? Mine just have the remnants of the handle rusted into the mount so I need to start from scratch with them.

Thanks.

[Big D]

Some pictures of the hull and hatches.

[dgrev]

Darryl

Rotating handle on top hatches? Keh?

There is none.

Do you mean the locking knob that locks the hatch horizontal in the open position?

Spring loaded, with 2 fingers that drop into notches.

By the way, the gearchange knob on your traverse box is stuck down.

Doug

[Big D]

Hi Doug

This is the handle I was talking about. It looks like it would have had a cam or similar on the end and 90 degree indents on the mount, to lock the handle in place and to give you the leverage to pull the top hatch down.

The locking knob you talk about is the one that I need to rebuild. I'd be keen on any photographs of the internals of this.

Thanks for that on the traverse. I will check that out.

[Big D]

Hi all,

It’s been a few weeks since I posted any progress reports on the M8 so here are a few pictures of some work I’ve been doing.

I’ve spent a lot of time on the hull, removing old broken bolts, cleaning out mounting holes, re-tapping threads where necessary, and cutting and grinding off the odd post-war mount.

I’ve removed the first section of the armoured floor. As you can see from the photos, the remnants of the original floor are still in place around the sides of the hull and the first cross member. I’m going to remove the rest of the armoured floor so I can clean out all those old rusty bits and pieces. I have a second-hand original front floor coming from Belgium but this won’t be here until Xmas. I’m not sure how much of the outside of that has been cut off and it will need repair to a few places but I’m hoping that it will be better than what I’ve got here. If not, I’ll go back to the armoured floor.

I’ve fabricated some new mounts for storing the headlights at the foot of the hull by the co-driver’s feet. I still need to make up the spring plate that sits in the mount and holds the light base in place in the mount.

I tidied up the top hatch mounts and started tacking them in place. One hatch needed the hinges removed altogether from what was left of the cut off mounts and straightened with a bit of heat. The other side still had part of the cut-away hull plate attached to the hinges so I have cut that piece to size to fit into place on the hull and tacked it in. I’ll fill in the joints the next time I’m in the workshop.

The driver’s front hatch is now in place and I’ll finish welding the hinges in next week. I had two hatches to choose from. This one has a bit of bullet damage to the front but the hinge mounts were in much better shape than the other, so I decided to use this one. The bullet damage will be a conversation starter anyway…

My father in law has fabricated new handles and mounts for the underside of the top hatches. It took us a while to work out how these were designed but the finished product looks quite good. These are now fitted to the top hatches.

I’ve fabricated some new visor/pistol port slides for the front hatches and side ports, using the existing pieces as templates. I have one good working retracting spring plunger and another that I should be able to get going. I also found two modern spring plungers which look similar to the originals. These have a knurled handle as well but are a bit smaller than the originals. While they won’t look quite right, they will do until an original hopefully turns up one day. Does anyone have any spare originals?

I’ve also replaced some of the original studs for mounting the slide levers.

I am working on the top hatch locking arms which hold the top hatches in the horizontal position. One had been removed from a hull at some stage and the mechanism was completely frozen. Despite lots of penetrant, some heat, plus a little bit of encouragement from a press, it refused to budge. As you can see I had to be a little surgical and get access to the mechanism by removing a strip of metal from the top. Penetrant was never going to do it! Once I have got it all working again, I’ll lengthen the activating rod and weld the top strip back in again. I’ll repair the other locking arm in situ.

The shovel and axe mounts, rear tow cable mount and siren mount are fitted along with a handful of footman loops I had.

The spring latch that sits on the glacis on the front of the hull for the two front hatches is repaired and ready to be welded on.

One mine rack has been repaired and ready to fit (thanks for the measurements Sly). The other one is being fabricated along with the missing top hatch handle and front hatch lever/handle.

The guys in the engineering shop are going to see if they can straighten the headlight guards. The ones I’ve got are pretty beaten up so it may be a case of starting afresh with them, and the bends in them are not something I can create.