Sherman update (19MAY18) and she's running
- wjohn
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 06MAY15)
i am always impressed when some one take on a Tank Resto, doing a jeep rebuild looks like a 'walk in the park' after following a couple of these threads.
GPW 204556
USA 20536862
MB371922
ACM2 Tub 23298
MB130849
ARN: 79731
DOD 26 Mar 1942
USA 20536862
MB371922
ACM2 Tub 23298
MB130849
ARN: 79731
DOD 26 Mar 1942
- DoctorCheney223
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 06MAY15)
I was told that this tank was definitely in the Pacific because of the "duck bills" on the tracks and all the hatches had "penny nails" welded to the hatches to keep Japanese explosives off the hatches.nirvana wrote:Yea, you certainly are in Vegas. That is rocket damage for sure. At least it wasn't high explosive, or large caliber solid shot, that would've warped the hell. Most of those look like easy to repair holes.
Two things are notable to me about this tank.
The added armor on the right side, at the front, isn't the standard pattern that is commonly seen. It makes me wonder where it was applied, and when. They are usually smaller rectangle pieces, like this:
There also looks to be little metal nubs on the two hull hatches. I can tell if its a photo illusion, and it really just spall damage, or if its something else. My thoughts go to a modification that was done in the pacific theater, where tanks had metal spikes welded onto the tops of their hatches, to limit some types of attacks by the Japanese. If the spikes were cut off, they would look like what you have there. I hate to use a model to illustrate this, but its the best photo I could find on google. Do the upper hatches have these same metal nubs on them? Would it be possible to get better pictures?
Here are some pics of the two lower hatches and the tracks. The hatches on top have the same areas where the nails were ground off.
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 06MAY15)
Ah, good to know I'm not crazy. The armor struck me as something done in the field as well, and the nails screamed Pacific. Wish there was a way to track down more information about this vehicle.
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 06MAY15)
It's a wet stowage hull so never would have had the applique armour patches, not sure what that plate is, covering up previous damage?
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 06MAY15)
Based on its shape, and the tracks, and the nails, I was assuming that it was a field modification. We will probably never know.tankbarrell wrote:It's a wet stowage hull so never would have had the applique armour patches, not sure what that plate is, covering up previous damage?
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 06MAY15)
The extended end connectors in themselves are proof of nothing. Many tanks got them fitted, particularly in Europe but I would certainly agree that the nail stubs are very likely to be proof of a Pacific used tank. It's hard to think what else they could be. That tank may have a very interesting history.
- DoctorCheney223
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 06MAY15)
Got some work done on the Sherman today.
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 08AY15)
Wow. They even covered the ventilator with nails.
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 08AY15)
Hi Doctor Cheney,
Most surviving Shermans in the US survived because they were never sent overseas.
That tank sure looks like a USMC WW II bring back from the PTO.
Did you see any tactical markings or the USMC Number "under" the paint layers?
The tanks' serial number would be stamped on the rear tow lugs, or inside the dataplate frame next to the driver's seat.
It's an early production M4A3(75) wet stowage, made by Fisher Body, probably in May or June, 1944.
The Marines would have added the Commander's vision cupola, the extra armor on the front sides of the hull, & the nails.
Perhaps it had concrete sides at some point?
One was buried but uncovered on Iwo Jima a while back...
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... -iwo-jima/
Regards,
Joe
Most surviving Shermans in the US survived because they were never sent overseas.
That tank sure looks like a USMC WW II bring back from the PTO.
Did you see any tactical markings or the USMC Number "under" the paint layers?
The tanks' serial number would be stamped on the rear tow lugs, or inside the dataplate frame next to the driver's seat.
It's an early production M4A3(75) wet stowage, made by Fisher Body, probably in May or June, 1944.
The Marines would have added the Commander's vision cupola, the extra armor on the front sides of the hull, & the nails.
Perhaps it had concrete sides at some point?
One was buried but uncovered on Iwo Jima a while back...
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... -iwo-jima/
Regards,
Joe
- DoctorCheney223
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 08AY15)
Hi Joe,
After seeing your post, I went to where they removed more scrap and found what was left of the data plate in the pile of mess. They didn't know what it was when they cut it out because it's been rusted over but we could make the details after comparing it to sample image the we Googled. The serial number for this tank is 49606
The proper location of the serial number still allows the stamps to be seen. These numbers match the numbers that were stamped directly into the body behind the data plate. The year on the bottom of the data plate states 1944.
Also, I found numbers that look like they used when they assembled it. The first pic shows some numbers that are drawn/painted on to the metal and it's on both sides of the the tank in the same location.
This is where they removed the data plate
This is what the data plate looked like when I pulled it out of the mess
and lastly, here is the date plate after sandblasting and eyes younger than mine were able to highlight year, weight and serial number.
Here are the pics
After seeing your post, I went to where they removed more scrap and found what was left of the data plate in the pile of mess. They didn't know what it was when they cut it out because it's been rusted over but we could make the details after comparing it to sample image the we Googled. The serial number for this tank is 49606
The proper location of the serial number still allows the stamps to be seen. These numbers match the numbers that were stamped directly into the body behind the data plate. The year on the bottom of the data plate states 1944.
Also, I found numbers that look like they used when they assembled it. The first pic shows some numbers that are drawn/painted on to the metal and it's on both sides of the the tank in the same location.
This is where they removed the data plate
This is what the data plate looked like when I pulled it out of the mess
and lastly, here is the date plate after sandblasting and eyes younger than mine were able to highlight year, weight and serial number.
Here are the pics
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 08AY15)
Hi Doc Cheney,
49606 would have been accepted in May 1944.
The Registration Number assigned would have been USA 3082203.
If there would be any chance of your uncovering tactical markings or the USMC Number through "paint archeology," that might tell the history. Maybe 5th Marine Tank Battalion?
I'm sure the turret & the differential housing are original to that tank, but you could confirm the diff by seeing if you can find the serial number stamped on both sides where it bulges out.
The Marines may have added tracks which obscured the stampings, but you would be looking for a 5 digit number with a "S" for serial number prefix - like S49606.
Please have a look at this webpage. At the bottom, it shows where to look for various number stampings.
I'd be interested to know the number with an "A" prefix that is stamped into the front section of the side armor plate on the driver's side.
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minu ... 3_75w.html
Some Marine docs mention that they put a piece of wood or something down the smoke mortar hole in the turret to keep the Japanese from putting explosives down there when they swarmed the tanks.
By any chance is there anything crammed down there?
>here is the date plate after sandblasting and eyes younger than mine were able to highlight year, weight and serial number.
A bit of the initials of the Army Inspector who accepted the tank can be seen on the lower right.
Joe
49606 would have been accepted in May 1944.
The Registration Number assigned would have been USA 3082203.
If there would be any chance of your uncovering tactical markings or the USMC Number through "paint archeology," that might tell the history. Maybe 5th Marine Tank Battalion?
I'm sure the turret & the differential housing are original to that tank, but you could confirm the diff by seeing if you can find the serial number stamped on both sides where it bulges out.
The Marines may have added tracks which obscured the stampings, but you would be looking for a 5 digit number with a "S" for serial number prefix - like S49606.
Please have a look at this webpage. At the bottom, it shows where to look for various number stampings.
I'd be interested to know the number with an "A" prefix that is stamped into the front section of the side armor plate on the driver's side.
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minu ... 3_75w.html
Some Marine docs mention that they put a piece of wood or something down the smoke mortar hole in the turret to keep the Japanese from putting explosives down there when they swarmed the tanks.
By any chance is there anything crammed down there?
>here is the date plate after sandblasting and eyes younger than mine were able to highlight year, weight and serial number.
A bit of the initials of the Army Inspector who accepted the tank can be seen on the lower right.
Joe
- DoctorCheney223
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 08AY15)
Hi Joe,Joe DeMarco wrote:Hi Doc Cheney,
I'm sure the turret & the differential housing are original to that tank, but you could confirm the diff by seeing if you can find the serial number stamped on both sides where it bulges out.
The Marines may have added tracks which obscured the stampings, but you would be looking for a 5 digit number with a "S" for serial number prefix - like S49606.
Please have a look at this webpage. At the bottom, it shows where to look for various number stampings.
I'd be interested to know the number with an "A" prefix that is stamped into the front section of the side armor plate on the driver's side.
Joe
Here's a picture that shows the number to be A998
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Chieftain Mk10's
M901 APC
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 08AY15)
>Here's a picture that shows the number to be A998
Thanks for checking that.
By my math, SN 49606 would have been the 992nd M4A3(75)W accepted at the Fisher Body plant in Grand Blanc Michigan.
Hence we characterize the side number as a "loose" build sequence number.
The "A" prefix means the tank was built as an M4A3(75)W.
Quite a few surviving Shermans in the US that have the A prefix, were converted to M4A3(76)HVSS in the post war years.
Please let us know if you find any painted on "Marine sign" on that tank.
As reports can back from the Pacific about enemy soldiers swarming tanks, the Ordnance Dept. tried various defensive methods, including remote controlled pipe bombs, grenades and even flame throwers mounted on the tanks. None of these were actually used because of the great risk of fratricide.
The nail thing seems like a pretty desparate measure to keep Japanese soldiers off the tanks.
Seems like they could or would have resulted in numerous Marine crew injuries.
There are a few pix of Marine Shermans in Tsingtao China at the Japanese surrender there.
The tanks had been stripped of all the extra tracks & armor, etc. so they have a lot of weld scars, and look like what you have.
Joe
Thanks for checking that.
By my math, SN 49606 would have been the 992nd M4A3(75)W accepted at the Fisher Body plant in Grand Blanc Michigan.
Hence we characterize the side number as a "loose" build sequence number.
The "A" prefix means the tank was built as an M4A3(75)W.
Quite a few surviving Shermans in the US that have the A prefix, were converted to M4A3(76)HVSS in the post war years.
Please let us know if you find any painted on "Marine sign" on that tank.
As reports can back from the Pacific about enemy soldiers swarming tanks, the Ordnance Dept. tried various defensive methods, including remote controlled pipe bombs, grenades and even flame throwers mounted on the tanks. None of these were actually used because of the great risk of fratricide.
The nail thing seems like a pretty desparate measure to keep Japanese soldiers off the tanks.
Seems like they could or would have resulted in numerous Marine crew injuries.
There are a few pix of Marine Shermans in Tsingtao China at the Japanese surrender there.
The tanks had been stripped of all the extra tracks & armor, etc. so they have a lot of weld scars, and look like what you have.
Joe
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- DoctorCheney223
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Re: Gutted the Sherman today (new pics 08AY15)
All of the rocket holes have been welded, it was sandblasted, a coat of primer sprayed and the first coat of OD green the hull. I am waiting for the tracks, all of the suspension and the final drive from a fellow G503 member to arrive and then we will start looking for a Detroit 8V92T and Allison transmission for the engine.
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