Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

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Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by jeeptj1 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:40 am

Anyone ever had any trouble with the tie rod i think adjustment nut rubbing on the dust boot. Its an A5 with 4 wheel steer and its the rear ones.
Thanks john jr


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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by jeeptj1 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:05 pm

Thanks to auto shop teacher for fast response and call. Seems that the tie rods were reversed with the short end on tire side instead of towards the middle. Thanks again. John jr

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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by ltsimp » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:25 pm

My boots seem to get holes worn in them from the casting ear that the tie rod end attaches to. Any trick to avoiding that?

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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by muleman7 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:52 pm

Is it only on one steering knuckle that the boot fails or all boots?

There is a protrusion on the end of the casting where the tie rod attaches. This limits the turning angle because it contacts the gear cover housing.

There should be enough room preventing the boot from pinching during extreme turns. Yours is an uncommon problem so you need to check that the casting is contacting the gear cover housing if not then it may have bent causing the boot to pinch during extreme turns.

A new boot that is soft and pliable should handle the turns without failure. Boots tend to last many years unless punctured during operation over rough/cluttered or rocky terrain.
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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by Auto Shop teacher » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:28 pm

Is there any chance that you can post a photo of what your boot is wearing against on the housing?

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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by muleman7 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:04 pm

The pic below was sent to me by Auto Shop teacher from jeept1s problem with his boot being pinched. I received it as a 30KB JPEG and was unable to enlarge with out distorting.

There appears to be marks indicating the head of the tie rod end is making contact and the casting ear could pinch and cause a hole in the boot.

I will pull a mule in Tuesday and take pics of the assembly in full turn with and with out the tie rod end and post.

As I stated previous this is an uncommon problem and I have seen boots that were swelled and this could be the case in this instance causing it to pinch. Or the arm is bent. I will post dimensions of the arm to the knuckle.

Image
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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by Auto Shop teacher » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:03 pm

Could it be a worn out tie rod end and the movement of the housing is excessive? Where is the stop limiting the lock right and lock left travel?

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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by muleman7 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:46 am

Excellant point I will install a very worn tie rod end and see if the movement could pull it tight against the boot and gear cover causing the boot to puncture will post results.
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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by ltsimp » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:47 am

To answer Muleman7's questions regarding my problem. Only 2 boots are affected. Right front and left rear. They actually have been punctured by pinching between the stop ear contacting the housing. It's almost as if those 2 boots were oversized. I wonder if there were ever cheap copies of the boots made that weren't up to spec?

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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by muleman7 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:49 am

Yes there are copies of the original boot now available from a couple of sources.

From my research there were 2 molds made, one of those were Bill Watson's and now owned by John Emery. I hear that both molds are with the producer of the boots. I have in stock both boots plus original boots still in gov packaging. I will check them against the original. and post results.

As for RF and LR they are the same knuckle as they are interchangeable corner to corner.

If the boots were ever cleaned with solvent or gas this may have caused them to swell???????????????? I say this because some of the rubber air horn connectors now available that I used swell after a period of time and must be because the rubber compound reacts to gas. Ethanol causes a brake down of old school rubber. But I have been using NON Ethanol fuel for 4 years mixed with Sta-Bil 2oz per 5gal???????
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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by ltsimp » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:07 am

Well I got the rest of the mule up in the air and all wheels off where I can get a really good look at where the boots are pinching. My earlier statement about only 2 boots being pinched was premature. All 4 are being pinched between the casting ear that limits travel by contacting the housing and the housing. Interesting. Only pinches and therefore cuts the boots on extreme turns. Beginning to think these may be oversized for some reason. Holes in boots exactly match the casting ear that stops travel. Just a wee bit smaller diameter of the boots and there would be no problem. Looking forward to finding out what others discover.

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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by muleman7 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:26 pm

Yes there are copies of the original boot now available from a couple of sources.

From my research there were 2 molds made, one of those were Bill Watson's and now owned by John Emery. I hear that both molds are with the producer of the boots. I have in stock both boots plus original boots still in gov packaging. I will check them against the original. and post results.

As for RF and LR they are the same knuckle as they are interchangeable corner to corner.

If the boots were ever cleaned with solvent or gas this may have caused them to swell???????????????? I say this because some of the rubber air horn connectors now available that I used swell after a period of time and must be because the rubber compound reacts to gas. Ethanol causes a brake down of old school rubber. But I have been using NON Ethanol fuel for 4 years mixed with Sta-Bil 2oz per 5gal???????
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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by muleman7 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:40 pm

Correction I found another Boot it has a casting Mark MMA I could assume that it means Mechanical Mules of America but I have no information or documentation to prove it? I now have 3 repos and 1 original mfg 4/75

This pic is out of focus but shows the stop tang in contact with the gear cover and the boot just inside not pinched.

Image

The next 2 pics show the dimension of the tie rod hole to the edge of the Knuckle it is 29/32" for both. For this tang to bend it would take an extreme impact and is somewhat protected by the tire and wheel.

LR-RF

Image

RR-LF

Image

The next 2 pics shows the first 3 boots: Boot #1, Boot #2 and Boot Original

Image

The Original on the right was Mfg 4/75 and is collapsed due to storage

Image

The next 3 pics are the overall width of the Boots

Boot #1 6-9/16"

Image

Boot #2 6-5/8"

Image

Boot Orig 6-1/2 Heavy

Image

The next 2 pics show the casting marks on the inner lip it appears to be the same and from overall appearance they look identical. I was told by one supplier that one of the two molds was damaged?

Boot #1

Image

Boot #2

Image

Boot Orig inner lip

Image

Boot MMA set with black RTV

Image

Boot MMA overall width 6-1/2" this boot feels stiffer and thicker than the other 2 repos. It would be the best in my opinion except for no safety wire groove.

Image

I was installing a new hub bearing and went to secure the inner lip with 0.041 safety wire and it would not fit the groove then I switched to 0.031 safety wire and it would not fit? I pulled the boot and upon inspection there was NO GROOVE? When I pulled it apart initially the wire was out of position this should have gotten my attention but it was overlooked until assembly. A band would not work since the boot is smooth from the interior edge to the inside of the boot with NO LIP for a band to sit in. The bead requires a safety wire since the gear cover tapers away from the groove.

Image

This pic is of the hub seal it is rubber encased with an aggressive wiper lip. It is about the same width as the National 473455 and would be my choice over the National seal. Since Emery Mules have a rubber double lip seal the same width as the original I will use John Emery's.

TTO F6208

Image
Last edited by muleman7 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by muleman7 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:57 am

In a previous Post I misstated that the pic of the pinched boot was from jeeptj1 it is not a pic from his mule. It came to me via an e-mail and I should have stated it was a pic from a mule belonging to Steve. My apology to jeeptj1.
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Re: Tie rod rubbing on dust boot

Post by ltsimp » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:11 pm

After getting all new boots and hub seals installed on my mule I decided to measure the old boots. They averaged 7 and 1/16 inch outside diameter. What caused this I have no
Idea. I installed new O rings on the hub and nut,which I found locally. The 9/64 by 1 1/4 roll pins are proving to be much harder to locate. Anyone have a source for them? I can understand why you find nails or in my case cut off cotter pin pieces. Next replacing the transmission output shaft seal and front axle input seal. Any help would be appreciated.


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