I just finished a little empirical research- It has been noted here, and on the WW2 Dodge Forum that there is some play to the bearing caps on the replacement U-joints from the usual sources. I myself have noted some movement within the yoke area from a sliding u-joint, and this can cause drivability issues, as well as potential damage... This movement is caused by a problem with the snap rings & grooves in the bearing cap...
I found that using a piece of .040 safety wire, tightly pulled between the inner side of the slot and the snap ring, that it would shim it enough to tighten everything up properly. I dd this to my rear driveshaft a few months ago, but am just getting around to doing the front driveshaft, which was decidedly loose.
While I had it out, I managed to find four original U-joint caps, complete with original c-clips. As suspected, there is some difference. Unsuspected was the difference in the slot I noted
The original clip averages about .094" thick: (This is an average of about 6 different measurements (each) on 4 original, used clips)The original groove on the cap is 0.110" wide, for a clearance between the two of .016" and a cumulative of .032". The new clips are about .073", with the groove 0.116, for a massive clearance on each side of .043! This makes a combined clearance of .086", or just under 1/10th of an inch! No wonder there is so much slop in these u-joints!
I am going to use original clips in the new cap grooves, for a clearance of .022"(. 044 cumulative) or .012 more than originals, yet .021"(.043" cumulative) less than with the new clips. I may still use some .021 safety wire as a shim, but do not think it will really be necessary...
(By "cumulative" I refer to the total movement of the u-joint towards either end cap from all the way one way, to all the way the other.)
These numbers reflect the problem with the caps where they have the attaching clamps- I did not see a need to check the ones which are pressed into the driveshaft side, as they feel tight, with no slip...
WC Repro bearing cap issues
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WC Repro bearing cap issues
Last edited by ng19delta on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WC Repro bearing cap issues
thanks for posting this issue. i'm not qualified to comment on what to do, but as i will be at this point on my rebuild soon, and in the interest of moving the comment along, i hope others can offer some supportive comments.
Oz
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Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
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Re: WC Repro bearing cap issues
Can u elaborate on which model WC that you have?
1/2 ton WC military trucks used both the mechanics type as well as the Detroit type.
On my WC, I have the mechanics type universal joint.
When I bought so called "new" from VPW, I was sent what appeared to be "modified" mechanics type universal joints. New yes. Some other application?
Anyone with mechanics type joints know the end cap are not simple round caps, but rather cast or forged with end flanges of sort.
These end flanges had been ground or cut on a grinding wheel it appeared, to fit the dodge WC application.
Fine. I understand our sources are running out of NOS parts and are seeking alternative parts. I applaud them.
This seems a good idea, but they didn't fit until I did further grinding of my own. The cap diameter was too large to fit the securing clip.
I had no choice but to grind a little from the cap and some from the clip. I don't like it, but it was necessary to make fit.. at all.
Now not sure if any of you have found other sources for NOS mechanics style u-joints or not, but if you can at all get NOS, do it and save yourself the troubles.
Ask your parts source if the part is indeed NOS or a so called "new" part.
The other alternative is buying a complete NOS driveshaft. That's what I did for my rear and front, and glad I did.
However on the short jack shaft (intermediate shaft, between tranny and transfer) I couldn't find one so had no choice but to get the "new" I-joints with no NOS ones available.
What I should do is just get another NOS complete driveshaft and keep around for the future should I ever need u -joints again.
Anyway.. just a friendly word of caution.
1/2 ton WC military trucks used both the mechanics type as well as the Detroit type.
On my WC, I have the mechanics type universal joint.
When I bought so called "new" from VPW, I was sent what appeared to be "modified" mechanics type universal joints. New yes. Some other application?
Anyone with mechanics type joints know the end cap are not simple round caps, but rather cast or forged with end flanges of sort.
These end flanges had been ground or cut on a grinding wheel it appeared, to fit the dodge WC application.
Fine. I understand our sources are running out of NOS parts and are seeking alternative parts. I applaud them.
This seems a good idea, but they didn't fit until I did further grinding of my own. The cap diameter was too large to fit the securing clip.
I had no choice but to grind a little from the cap and some from the clip. I don't like it, but it was necessary to make fit.. at all.
Now not sure if any of you have found other sources for NOS mechanics style u-joints or not, but if you can at all get NOS, do it and save yourself the troubles.
Ask your parts source if the part is indeed NOS or a so called "new" part.
The other alternative is buying a complete NOS driveshaft. That's what I did for my rear and front, and glad I did.
However on the short jack shaft (intermediate shaft, between tranny and transfer) I couldn't find one so had no choice but to get the "new" I-joints with no NOS ones available.
What I should do is just get another NOS complete driveshaft and keep around for the future should I ever need u -joints again.
Anyway.. just a friendly word of caution.
- dpcd67
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Re: WC Repro bearing cap issues
Never had an issue but I have only used original retaining straps. Did you ask Vintage about it? They are always most helpful to me.
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Re: WC Repro bearing cap issues
I have a WC-51: These use two different sizes of U-joints, depending on the production date... My research was on the smaller ones, early. The U-joints are repros from one of our main suppliers in the Dodge hobby, and other than the clip issue, the fit is fine... They are not NOS, but new made reproduction pieces. I think the big thing is to find original clips- Even used ones, as long as they have good tension. The new production clips are NFG in my opinion. Additionally, besides the thickness, they also have a minimum engagement- Originals make about 3/4 of the circumference- the repro ones only go slightly beyond half... With the originals in place on the repro caps, they are a dead perfect, tight fit when the driveshaft is in place- No movement at all- after nearly 1/10" with the repro clips...wc56daveyboy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:31 amCan u elaborate on which model WC that you have?
1/2 ton WC military trucks used both the mechanics type as well as the Detroit type.
On my WC, I have the mechanics type universal joint.
When I bought so called "new" from VPW, I was sent what appeared to be "modified" mechanics type universal joints. New yes. Some other application?
Anyone with mechanics type joints know the end cap are not simple round caps, but rather cast or forged with end flanges of sort.
These end flanges had been ground or cut on a grinding wheel it appeared, to fit the dodge WC application.
Fine. I understand our sources are running out of NOS parts and are seeking alternative parts. I applaud them.
This seems a good idea, but they didn't fit until I did further grinding of my own. The cap diameter was too large to fit the securing clip.
I had no choice but to grind a little from the cap and some from the clip. I don't like it, but it was necessary to make fit.. at all.
Now not sure if any of you have found other sources for NOS mechanics style u-joints or not, but if you can at all get NOS, do it and save yourself the troubles.
Ask your parts source if the part is indeed NOS or a so called "new" part.
The other alternative is buying a complete NOS driveshaft. That's what I did for my rear and front, and glad I did.
However on the short jack shaft (intermediate shaft, between tranny and transfer) I couldn't find one so had no choice but to get the "new" I-joints with no NOS ones available.
What I should do is just get another NOS complete driveshaft and keep around for the future should I ever need u -joints again.
Anyway.. just a friendly word of caution.
Scott
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Re: WC Repro bearing cap issues
As I just mentioned in a reply, I installed the driveshaft last night, with the original clips on the repro caps: They are quite tight now, as they should be... There is no discernible play with them in place, so they should be good... Now I just need to dig up four more original clips for the rear, and four for the intermediate one!
Scott
Scott
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