Ferret driving me batty!

Other MV's, Non U.S. Manufacture
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1954ArgusFerret
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Ferret driving me batty!

Post by 1954ArgusFerret » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:05 am

Hello Everyone,
My name is Paul and I'm new to this site. I just acquired my first piece of armor, a 1954 Daimler Ferret a few weeks ago. I have so,so,so many questions, but could we please start with this one? Can anyone please tell me what model this is? I've actually found the identification process to be quite frustrating. The aluminum plate that I assume was on each of these units is missing, but the small metal tag that's welded to the hull reads as follows: 464 B 8 4. I haven't removed any paint yet, but I was hoping that I could get at least a little bit of info from all the stampings on the exterior and interior of the hull and turret, but after days of research, all I have is a better misunderstanding of what I may have. What I find so frustrating is that during my first and second day of researching the vehicles on the net, I actually came across what would have been a few pages of very helpful info and a video of a Ferret that appeared to be very much like the one I have, but I could never find it again after days of searching. I've attached a few photos of the Ferret. It was purchased off of Ebay here in the states (Virginia) three weeks ago. The only prior history of the vehicle that I was given by the previous owners son was: The ferret was used by a Virginia Police Dept. during a raid sometime in the mid-nineties. Rather than just knocking down the front door with the battering ram mounted to the front of the unit, the vehicle proceeded to enter the home and made quite a mess doing it. The damage to the home created such a stir that an investigation was started. Driver said it was the vehicle so vehicle was inspected repeatedly, nothing found. Vehicle sat for a few years unused until the case quieted and the Mayor of the County determined that it should never be used again by the Department and deemed that it be sold. The Ferret was sold at a Virginia auction sometime around 2000-2002 where the new owner purchased it and brought it to his farm. I was told that it ran and drove very well, but was used so rarely that it was nearly forgotten and left to sit tarped for nearly fifteen years. That's it! Whether it's true or not, that's all I was told. I did find out through miscellaneous articles on the net that this vehicle and a few other ex-military vehicles were purchased by a wealthy Virginia man who started a company called Argus which stands for "Armored Response Group United States". The company would lend the equipment out to U.S. Policing agencies to use for situations that required specialized equipment. Well, long story short. The equipment was used during six situations, but the company and owner didn't fare well. Needless to say, I own the vehicle, but can't find any photos, specific paperwork or past records of this vehicle. That's where I need all the help. I have no idea what's original to this unit as far as turret or etc. Many coats of paint under the grayish blue. I see two different colors of green, a little white camouflage pattern and red primer. It has stamped numbers everywhere and also appears to have had a forward mounted pedestal centered just forward of the turret. Please take a look and tell me what ideas you might have as far as what's missing, what's original and whatever else crosses your mind. Please! I can see what appears to be a stamp just to the side of the right-side window/hatch which I have read may have some importance. I have placed a link to some photos below. Picture quality is poor in some photos. I do apologize.

LINK: https://1954argusferret.shutterfly.com/

I Sincerely appreciate all the help I can get with this. I'd like to restore it back to it's original glory if I knew what that may looked like. Thank You for any help you can offer. Respectfully, Paul

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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by artificer » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:01 pm

I worked on a few of these 1967 thru 1970. Not easy & these vehicles required a lot of maintenance, primarily caused through lack of use.
464 8 8 4 is likely the hull serial number check here http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showt ... hp?t=13884
Be aware these were also known as Daimler Ferret Scout Cars.

Not sure, but Paul may find something by going to the websites attached to the images found when he googles....Australian Army Ferret & Canadian Forces Ferret.
The Ferret Scout Car Mark 2, was developed by the British Army in the late 1940s and came into production in the 1950s. The Ferret first saw service in the British Army in 1952, and a little later in Australia.

There were many series and Marks of the Ferret. In Australia two were primarily used. The Mark 1, which had no turret and a crew of three, and the Mark2, with a turret and a crew of two. This is the Mark 2.

The Australian Army used the Ferrets as scout cars until the 1960s, they were disposed of by public auction in the early 1970s. The Ferret is a light armored car, intended for light reconnaissance work, they are very mobile and were well suited to their role. The vehicle was designed by Daimler, as a further development on the successful Daimler Dingo of WW2. The Ferret is fully armored and the standard model of the Ferret Mk2 was further strengthened shortly after its design and became the Mk2/3 (this is the usual model referred as the Mk2). The motor was Roll Royce B60 motor, giving the vehicle a power to weight ratio of 29.35 break horse power per tonne, the vehicle weighs 3.6 tonnes, although a combat weight would be 4.3 tonnes. It is four wheel drive, constant, and has a top speed of 93 k.p.h. (approx 50 m.p.h.). The Ferret is 3.8 metres long by 1.9 metres wide and is 1.9 metres high, not including radio aerials. The ground clearance is .33 of a metre and the track width is 1.5 metres.

The steering wheel is 'inverted', it runs at a 45 degree angle away from the driver, this is probably not an unusual feature to drivers of armored vehicles but to everyone else is most disconcerting. However, once used, there would be no loss of ability to the driver. The gear box is a fluid drive Wilson pre-select gearbox. The gear selector is placed into the desired driving gear, AND then the clutch is engaged. There are 5 gears to select from, although the First gear is only intended for very low range work. On the left side of the driver is a selector lever which allows the driver to change the gearbox to reverse, this changed all gears, (so you can get out of trouble as fast as you got into it!). The gear box allows the Ferret to be driven off from a standing position in any
gear.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by 1954ArgusFerret » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:37 pm

Hey Artificer,

Thank you so much for your response. That article was very helpful. I've read over it at least four or five times now. I'm going to check the specific areas on the hull that were noted in the article. I'm looking forward to a little paint stripping now. My Sincerest Thanks to you, Paul

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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by artificer » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:33 am

Like all these armoured vehicles keep all tools attached to your wrist/arm with a flexible coupling.
Removing an engine [power pack] was often a gold mine of wrenches etc. @ the bottom of the hull.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by 1954ArgusFerret » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:31 am

Hey John,

Thanks for that advice. I could definitely see where tools could become inaccessible once lost. I have spent some time looking for more stamps. Added two more photos at the end. Hopefully it'll be the number that I need to get more info. I guess I'll have to contact Bovington Tank Museum now. I did try reaching out to Colin with regards to Trying to identify this unit with no response yet. Pat at Khaki Corps has sent me his parts list so now starts the real fun. Best Regards, Paul


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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by artificer » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:23 am

Paul wrote:I could definitely see where tools could become inaccessible once lost.
I found the Centurion tanks an even better tool resource.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by 1954ArgusFerret » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:32 pm

tmp_8040-Image-1971312564.jpg
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Hello Everyone,
Can anyone please tell me what may have been mounted on the exterior of this vehicle using the two bolts and collars at the top of the photo? The bolts are still in place, but have been torch cut on the exterior. Also, the covered switch to the right of the steering wheel functioned as a horn button, but what else did it activate if the switch was turned to the right or left? Also, assuming that you've looked at the photos I've linked, do you think that this Ferret originally had an open crew compartment or did it have a fixed turret (other than the one currently installed). Please keep in mind that I'm starting this project with no prior knowledge of these vehicles. I will be posting better pictures in the near future as the photos currently posted are quite poor given that I was using an IPhone. Perhaps, the lens was dirty coupled with poor lighting. Thanks for your help, Paul
Last edited by 1954ArgusFerret on Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by artificer » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:02 pm

Photo?
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by 1954ArgusFerret » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:25 pm

Sorry John. I was making changes to the post. Photo should be there now. Paul

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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by artificer » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:55 pm

Turret mounting? Comms connector?
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TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by Buggy Man » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:48 am

Hello & welcome to the Gee....

I've owned two Mk.1/2s. I'm currently replacing all of the belts & hoses on my current vehicle.

The number stamped onto that small metal plate welded to the upper right side of the hull interior is indeed your vehicle's serial number. Part of that seriel number is the vehicle's year of mfg. Bad news is that unless you can find your vehicle's Army VRN (Vehicle reg. number) Bovington won't be able to help you as it is the VRN that they go by and not the hull serial number.

The VRN (for British vehicles) was located in a couple of different places on the hull. The most noticeable spot was on the front, right above the driver's escape hatch. Sometimes in lieu of the VRN being located above the driver's escape hatch it was applied to the lower hull about where the driver's feet would be. The second spot was on the upper half of the rear armor plate just above of were the plate bends.

As to what bolted to those collars in the pic you posted I can not say. The two smaller bolts in between & forward of the two collars are for the driver's crash pad. Your ferret most likely started out life as a turretless Mk.I leasion vehicle but (& there's always a "but".... :lol: ) it could have been one of the turreted models such as a Mk.II that someone removed the rotating turret from. If it started out as a Mk.1/2 than the upper hull would have been notched to accomodate the fixed cupola.

Sights that may be of help/interest to a new (or old) ferret owners are listed below.
http://www.ferret-fv701.co.uk/
http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/index.php
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/forum.php


Matt

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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by Buggy Man » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:03 pm

1954ArgusFerret wrote:
tmp_8040-Image-1971312564.jpg
Normally where that CB is sitting is a small bin for a spare driver's periscope. Just behind it (left hand side in that pic) would either be a large spare parts box or a mounting plate for the 353 clansmen pack radio. My first ferret 00EA85, had the plate while my current ferret (haven't found the VRN yet) has the spares box.

Matt

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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by 1954ArgusFerret » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:08 pm

Hey Matt,

Please forgive me for not replying. I assumed that I would be sent an e-mail if someone had responded to my post, but I never received one in your case. I appreciate your help and suggestions/links. I was able to locate the CAR on my Ferret and found that it was a Canadian Mark I. The CAR/CVR is 54-82559 and the VRN was 36 BA 33. I was also told that it had served with the 12e RBC (12e River Du Blinde Regiment). I did contact Bovington, but they had no info on the Canadian Ferrets as I'm told. What was unusual on my Ferret was that the stamped CAR was found in the usual location (just forward of the horn), but was found on all five exterior compartment bins. The flat latch hold-downs on the top of each bin had the CAR stamped into each one. The only reason I found them was due to my removing the battering ram and finding the one latch that had the deepest stamp. The other four were stamped so lightly that I most likely would have never noticed them had I not noticed the rear right-side compartment lid first. I would have eventually removed the paint with a sand or media blaster and they would have been permanently erased. It was suggested by Rob Lowe from Canada that the bins most likely would have been stamped to prevent other Ferret crews from swapping bins. The bins were easily damaged and may have been highly sought after by other crews if they were in good shape. I am so greatly relieved that I was able to find the information that I was in search of, but now I really wish I could find a in-service photo of this specific unit. I just recently started it for the first time and was extremely surprised and shocked at just how well it ran for a vehicle that has sat for such a long time. The trans and drive stations seem to be great and now I'm ready to start the disassembly process. I now need to pick a time period for which I'd like my Ferret to appear as it had served in the Canadian Army. I hate guessing as to what my Ferret may have looked like, which is why the photo would have saved me so much effort. If there are any Ferret owners out there that believe their Ferret may have been Canadian, please take a look at the photos I will attach. PLEASE BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL when searching for these stamps. As I stated before, they may be so lightly stamped that just removing the paint with a wire brush may easily remove any remains of a stamp. I used aircraft paint stripper and a flat razor scraper/small pocket knife to lightly remove the paint. I also used a little bit of steel wool to wipe away any loose paint after the stripper had loosened the paint. A magnifying glass and a flashlight is also highly recommended. I really hope this info can help someone else out.
If anyone else should have a scrap of info with regards to this Ferret, please contact me and thank you again for all your help.

Once again, here are a few photos of a few of my latches. You can see the varying depths of the stamps.
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Re: Ferret driving me batty!

Post by 1954ArgusFerret » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:12 pm

I also found out what the two collars on the crew compartment ceiling were for as seen in one of the photos I posted previously. The collars are for the windscreen mounting bolts and the cover to the right is for the horn/high-beam switch.

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