1943 GPW engine value??

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Michael O.
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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by Michael O. » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:32 am

Is there a date code cast below the distributor? That’s one way to tell on later Ford “Wilson” blocks. Early Wilson Foundry GPW blocks shared the same casting number with MB blocks (obviously).
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:40 am

The Ford engine plant would have stamped an in-house block or a Wilson block on their assembly line once the motor was completed. Wilson would not have stamped a serial number on the block. So...you can have an EARLY GPW block that uses the straight-sided font or a LATE GPW block that used the rounded "GPW" font.

However...In addition to this example having an actual "ONE" digit in the serial number when Ford used a capital "I" in the serial number....the straight-sided "GPW" is NOT, repeat...NOT a serif font....which means the foot on the "P" in the photo and the tops of the "W" are a "serif font"....and not of an original factory stamping.

Again, the CASTING date below the distributor would give us a clue to when it was made and therefore the serial number range one might expect of a motor produced at that time.

Also, we can't see the "G" in the GPW and we can't see if the pad is an oval or if it is stepped....that would be the first thing to determine the age along with the casting date. For it to be "GPW-117048" it should have a "stepped" pad.

FYI....a GPW engine with a serial number of 117048 would have shown up on a GPW produced around May of 1943 and a casting date might be expected to be in late April or early May 1943....what does this one have?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by rjbeamer » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:48 am

When I talked with Sam this morning he said that the engine had GPW 6015 cast onto the block on the side. If that is true then it is not a Wilson Block.

Roger

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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:52 am

Roger....what was the date casting right above that "GPW 6015" casting?
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GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by rjbeamer » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:56 am

Chuck I don't know. That did not come up in the conversation. I was just confirming with him if it was in fact a GPW block and not a Wilson.

Roger

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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by railroadgoatoat » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:06 pm

WELL, WISH I COULD GO BACK AND ERASE EVERYTHING AND START OVER, BUT ?? I can't.

This engine was rebuilt about 3 years ago and put back in the corner waiting for frame and tub to be done. I forgot all the specifics about it over the years. Thought I remembered what all it was. After looking it over this morning, here is what I found.

Block is cast 638632. Attached are the castings that I could find. The oval pad on side of engine iis indeed an oval raised pad. Above and behind the water pump pad is blank. I could not find any numbers above the exhaust manifold in front. May have to remove manifold to be exactly certain?

Here are casting numbers I could find and photograph.
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Mark Jesic
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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by Mark Jesic » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:24 pm

To further the original question, an engine has just come up on e bay (UK). Its a Hotchkiss, rebuilt, asking price £3500.

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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by 42cargo » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:08 pm

I'm not an expert on this, so others will need to chime in, but I think those casting numbers are for Willy's not GPW. That would probably explain why the serial number font is off. I'm guessing this was a replacement block either officially done in a depot or by someone who needed to have their engine serial number match the chassis for registration purposes.

Again, I defer to those with more knowledge if I'm wrong.

John

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Michael O.
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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by Michael O. » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:35 am

rjbeamer wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:56 am
I was just confirming with him if it was in fact a GPW block and not a Wilson.

Roger
Yet the photos he posted indicate it’s a Wilson block.....I’m confused.

Some early and mid war GPWs did have Wilson Foundry “MB Style” blocks installed at the factory. Another, yet better, photo of the serial number pad would be helpful. An investigation into the machining date would positively date this block, beyond the 11-13 casting date we already know. You will have to remove the oil pan though to gain access to the machining date which stamped on the oil pan machined surface.
Michael O’Connell

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rjbeamer
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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by rjbeamer » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:55 am

MichaelO. I understand your confusion. I think that when i questioned Sam if it was in fact a GPW block His answer was from his memory and not from looking at it at the time.

Roger

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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by Adam » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:14 pm

Does it have a machining date on the oil pan sealing surface?? If Ford machined it, there would be none.

Whats with the water leak stains coming out from the head gasket?

Did you rebuild this? any receipts or anything?

If you pull the head, maybe pull the oil pan too, and look at a rod or main bearing, to verify no useage. Are the main bearing caps ford or willys?



Adam

Mark Miller
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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by Mark Miller » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:42 pm

Sam, If you want a pic of a Wilson block GPW serial number, contact Jimmy. He is rebuilding my old engine right now and it is definitely a Wilson block GPW. It has very legible stamping.

Mark

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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by gpwmke » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:47 pm

I would like to see the serial number stamping on the Wilson block you are having"Jimmy" rebuild. Could you post it her? Best wishes; Leo

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Re: 1943 GPW engine value??

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:53 am

End result...

1) it is not a "Ford" block, it is a "Willys" block ....note the "638632"
2) It was not a Wilson block that was delivered to Ford and put into GPW 117048....the "GPW 117048" is not of the font style Ford used
3) It is not a Wilson block that Ford provided.....there is no stamping number or crossed cannons on the LF corner by the exhaust manifold.

What it IS, is a Willys Wilson block that probably has had the original number ground off and re-stamped by a post war civilian....or, a field replacement while in service with a Willys-provided engine that had a shop stamp the number on the pad of the engine it replaced.

While it has the "11-13" casting date on it, that only means it could have been cast on any November 13th and as noted above, without removing the pan to see when it was machined since that is month/day/yr....it is not possible to determine WHICH "11-13" it was cast on (meaning what year).

I hope that what appears to be a CRACK in the block behind the "11-13" is just a spider web and not a crack which would probably be fatal at some point in time for this motor.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947


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