11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

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lucakiki
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11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by lucakiki » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:46 am

I have a question for the tool guys.

What is the meaning of the word AUTO in the tool list?
Until very recently I thought that it was the short for automotive, but while browsing through the many pictures in my files ( attempting to put some order in the mess) I found (and immediately lost again!) a list of tools for a non jeep vehicle where the wrench is listed as AUTOMATIC type.

It is not very important,I am aware, but I would like to know. Thank you.
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by hell-fire » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:22 am

Luca,

Good to see you back.

My opinion is that it is the typical way we tend to shorten or simplify things. Out here cars with a Automatic transmission are always reffered to as "Autos" as one example. I remember going to the Q store back in the day and if say I wanted a Jerry Can that is how I asked for it, never by the correct terminology of "Can, Gasoline, Steel 20 Litre".

I think this may be close to your answer and I hope my explanation makes sense.
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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by lucakiki » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:17 am

So, when in a tool list, like in the Willys parts list for instance, we read "auto" type it stands for automatic and not automotive or something else?
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by Wolfman » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:31 am

I believe what you are referring to is a wrench. Like a crescent wrench.
Auto adjusting or one wrench will adjust to fit any size fastener.
The wrench I am referring to had the jaws at 90 degrees to the handle, unlike the modern crescent wrenches that open on the end.
This type wrench is in a WWII jeep tool kit and the "over all" length is about 11 inches. Not the jaw opening.
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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by lucakiki » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:21 pm

Wolfman wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:31 am
I believe what you are referring to is a wrench. Like a crescent wrench.
Auto adjusting or one wrench will adjust to fit any size fastener.
The wrench I am referring to had the jaws at 90 degrees to the handle, unlike the modern crescent wrenches that open on the end.
This type wrench is in a WWII jeep tool kit and the "over all" length is about 11 inches. Not the jaw opening.

All I wanted to know is the actual meaning of the word Auto that can be read in the parts manual. Automatic makes sense.
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by Wolfman » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:15 am

I could not agree with you more, Luca.
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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by Wingnutt » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:18 am

lucakiki wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:46 am
...while browsing through the many pictures in my files ( attempting to put some order in the mess) I found (and immediately lost again!) a list of tools for a non jeep vehicle where the wrench is listed as AUTOMATIC type.
I can only conclude that your list, whatever its source, was in error, Luca.

The 11-inch auto wrench is listed as...

"WRENCH, adjustable, automobile type" (underlining mine)

...in at least these four (4) relevant period documents:

(1) QMC HQMB Engineering Specification No. 422c, TOOL-SETS, MOTOR VEHICLES, dated April 9, 1942
(2) ORD TAC Engineering Specification No. 422g, TOOL SETS, MOTOR VEHICLES, dated January 12, 1943
(3) Army Service Forces Catalog ORD 7, SNL G-503, dated 11 October 1944
(4) Army Service Forces Catalog ORD 5, SNL J-4, dated 4 March 1945

I'm at work, or I would look it up in several other period references, but I think you'll agree with me that these should suffice.
lucakiki wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:21 pm
Automatic makes sense.
Without doing any research to confirm this, I'm pretty sure that the name "automobile wrench" is to distinguish this type of wrench from its direct ancestor, known in the industry and on the street as a "bicycle wrench". They are very similar. And I don't see anything automatic about manually spinning a thumbscrew with ones thumb to adjust the jaw width to fit the diameter of multiple fasteners.
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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by Jeff H » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:48 pm

Here is a current day version , says automotive. Not asserting that it proves anything for the WWII time frame.

http://www.crescenttool.com/wrenches/ad ... arded.html

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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by Jeff H » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:49 pm

Also found this picture of a Billings & Spencer catalog page. It is a very small 12kb picture, but you can make out automobile if you make it larger.

https://www.terapeak.com/worth/1907-boo ... 063067441/
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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by Jeff H » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:10 pm

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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by Hartofoak » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:46 am

Nice (1904) find Jeff! As well as "pipe" and "auto" wrench, I believe these tools are types of "Monkey Wrench", for which patents of various modifications go back to the 1860's. Interestingly, there is also controversy about the derivation of the name "monkey" See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_wrench.
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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by Wingnutt » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:21 am

Luca,

As promised, and as a follow-up to my earlier post concentrating on what the government (QMC, Ordnance Dept) actually called the wrench in their on-board toolkit specifications (ES 422), the Oct 44 SNL G503, and the wrenches catalog (ORD 5 SNL J-4) - again, unanimously "Automobile", I also checked a few other documents.

The earlier SNL G503 (January 1944) abbreviates it to "auto". Verbatim, "WRENCH, screw, adjustable, auto type, 11 in."

Willys, which, as you know, got all of its specifications from QMC HQMB and then Ordnance Dept TAC ES 422, consistently abbreviated "Automobile Type" to "Auto Type" in all its key documents, apparently saving typists valuable minutes, cumulatively. :) Seriously, I can't find a single Willys document where it is fully spelled out. (As a light-hearted aside, there is one BOM - MB Navy MZ-2 - that takes a mistake to a humorous level, mistyping "Auto-Type" as "Auto-Lite", erroneously suggesting that the ignition/spark plug specialists made the wrench!)

FWIW, on page 610 of the Ford Master Parts List (SNL G-558), dated February 1944, it (GP 17021) is identified as "WRENCH, automobile type".

SNL G502 (Dodge) goes the abbreviated route, referring to it as a "WRENCH, screw, adj., auto."

Strangely, Chevy doesn't seem to have followed through on the TAC ES specs as well as Willys, Ford, and Dodge. The authors of the SNL G506 drop any and all pretense to classify its application for automobiles instead of bicycles (if I had to guess, as unnecessarily obvious), referring to it simply as a "WRENCH, screw, adjustable (11 in.)"
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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by Wolfman » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:16 am

That is the wrench I was describing.
My grandfather called one of those " a Model T wrench" . He owned one. A Model T. and the wrench.
Still have one or two lying around. Auto adjusting wrenches. No Model Ts.
From what Wingutt just posted, guess Gramp's description fits.
Don't ever recall seeing the toothed adapter. If I did, I probably didn't know what it was.
Go to Jeep Draw. Look under tools. Group #6. Has pictures of several auto adjusting wrenches by several different manufactures.
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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by Wingnutt » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:19 am

Mike,

Everyone in this thread is familiar with Jeep toolkit tools, including the wrench in question. And I am pretty sure we all have or have had at least one example if not several examples from a few different mfgrs (B&S, Fairmount, Moore, etc).

Luca's question was very specific - pertaining to nomenclature.
lucakiki wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:46 am
What is the meaning of the word AUTO in the tool list?
lucakiki wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:17 am
So, when in a tool list, like in the Willys parts list for instance, we read "auto" type it stands for automatic and not automotive or something else?
The resounding answer is that it stands for "automobile." It appears as "automobile" in the original QMC and TAC ES specs, and as "automobile" or "auto," for short, in several other documents, as I demonstrated above. Conversely, it never appears as "automatic." Jeff's research confirms that it was also referred to as an "automobile" wrench by B&S. B&S owned several original patents for adjustable bicycle and automobile wrenches and were for many years synonymous with the wrench. For good reason, the QMC and the Ordnance Dept specified "B&S, or equal" in ES 422 for on-board truck toolkits. Given all the evidence, when seen next to a description of an 11-inch (or 15-inch) adjustable (not adjusting, which never appears in any WWII reference, and implies self-adjusting) wrench, I think it would be erroneous to interpret "auto" as meaning "automatic" or anything other than "automobile." But, to each his own.
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Re: 11" AUTO type adjustable wrench

Post by Hartofoak » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:47 am

If you read my Wikipedia reference Mike, you'll notice a reference to "Ford Wrenches".
Great stuff Greg as usual!
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