GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGwimOch8U8
The opening shots of the GM office show the logo is the capital "G" and capital "M" enclosed in a rectangular box. Even the font looks to be close to the same for the lettering.
That indicates to me that this "logo" was in use at least in 1942.
However, another explanation for the markings on that oiler has nothing to do with tool kits on vehicles...the can could simply be an in-house item that General Motors put an identifying mark on. In other words, a factory oiler not a part of a vehicle toolkit.
The opening shots of the GM office show the logo is the capital "G" and capital "M" enclosed in a rectangular box. Even the font looks to be close to the same for the lettering.
That indicates to me that this "logo" was in use at least in 1942.
However, another explanation for the markings on that oiler has nothing to do with tool kits on vehicles...the can could simply be an in-house item that General Motors put an identifying mark on. In other words, a factory oiler not a part of a vehicle toolkit.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- Wingnutt
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
Still intrigued by Phil's find, I did more searching this morning, but I couldn’t find a single example of the GM font without serifs, until the modern version with the thick underline (adopted in 1966 per this site... http://famouslogos.net/gm-logo/). The font changes over time, generally getting thicker, but it seems to always have serifs.
The earliest example of a GM logo I could find was this NOS box with gaskets (purportedly, per the seller, from 1932)
Here is the gasket with the GM logo stamped into it.
And here is a close-up of the stamp. As you can see, it has serifs, matching the font on the box.
On the plus side, if the dating of the box and part are correct, that would show that GM did indeed have a centralized parts division at that time. So perhaps they did operate like that in WWII as well, and the style of the font unimportant. (It doesn't look like a 30's box to me. It looks 50's, but what do I know...)
Here is a GM logo from a 1942 ad
Here is a GM logo from a NOS box that the seller dates to 1941-47
Here is a 1952
1956
And 1960
Then, at some point in the late 60’s (one site said 1966), they went to the logo still used today…
The only other NOS GM part I could find that was actually stamped was this gear from 1971
To the other point, here is the GMC logo from a 1935 ad
And the same GMC logo is used on the bottom of this 1942 ad
If anyone is interested in reviewing more GM logos through the years, I saved a bunch in this folder:
http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/Wingn ... t=9&page=1
I will report back what I hear, if anything, from the GM Heritage Center next week.
The earliest example of a GM logo I could find was this NOS box with gaskets (purportedly, per the seller, from 1932)
Here is the gasket with the GM logo stamped into it.
And here is a close-up of the stamp. As you can see, it has serifs, matching the font on the box.
On the plus side, if the dating of the box and part are correct, that would show that GM did indeed have a centralized parts division at that time. So perhaps they did operate like that in WWII as well, and the style of the font unimportant. (It doesn't look like a 30's box to me. It looks 50's, but what do I know...)
Here is a GM logo from a 1942 ad
Here is a GM logo from a NOS box that the seller dates to 1941-47
Here is a 1952
1956
And 1960
Then, at some point in the late 60’s (one site said 1966), they went to the logo still used today…
The only other NOS GM part I could find that was actually stamped was this gear from 1971
To the other point, here is the GMC logo from a 1935 ad
And the same GMC logo is used on the bottom of this 1942 ad
If anyone is interested in reviewing more GM logos through the years, I saved a bunch in this folder:
http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/Wingn ... t=9&page=1
I will report back what I hear, if anything, from the GM Heritage Center next week.
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
OK....I have here the following tools for the Chevy G506...all with the GM in rectangle box stamped as mentioned. Handcrank, wheel wrench, wheel wrench handle, hydraulic jack(s) Hein Werner and Walker, spark plug wrench. Also have a wheel bearing nut wrench...but it is only stamped GM...no outside rectangular box. Will try and take some pictures today for you all.
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
Perhaps we just weren't looking hard enough...retro-roco wrote:I would think that if this was a common piece, we would have seen more of them.
I've found another one.
-Jason
- pjones
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
Nice find Jason!! You didn't happen to visit my flea market did you?
Does it have a 4" base? Its amazing what you can find when you start looking. Am I correct in assuming from Greg's research on GM logos that it could be ww2 era?
phil
EDIT: I just noticed the GM logo is in the exact same location as the one on mine. Would that make it less likely that it was added at the GM factory which I would assume would be more random or have more variation in its placement. More examples would be useful.
Does it have a 4" base? Its amazing what you can find when you start looking. Am I correct in assuming from Greg's research on GM logos that it could be ww2 era?
phil
EDIT: I just noticed the GM logo is in the exact same location as the one on mine. Would that make it less likely that it was added at the GM factory which I would assume would be more random or have more variation in its placement. More examples would be useful.
pjones
'42 Ford GPW 7127
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- Wingnutt
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
Phil, All,
My initial query to the General Motor Heritage Center in Sterling Heights, MI, was answered by a gentleman named Jon Vehko. He passed me on to one of their historians named Christo Datini. Below is a transcript of the exchange. You may draw your own conclusions. I am in the 'cautiously optimistic, but less than definitive' camp.
------------------------------------------------
To Whom It May Concern,
Would you please answer a few historical questions about the GM logo?
I am a WWII military vehicle preservation enthusiast. A fun part of our hobby is collecting the tools and other accessories that were issued to each vehicle from the factory. The GMC G508 CCKW "Jimmy" had a set of tools stowed under the driver's seat or in the back, depending on the model (open cab, dump, etc). Similarly, the Chevrolet G506 1.5 ton truck.
Recently, one of our community members discovered a box of old oil cans, all made by Noera, and all stamped with a "[GM]" logo. A photograph of one may be viewed here: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/50 ... 003208.JPG
We were shocked by this development, since none of the other many tools and equipment (e.g., 3.5-ton jacks, wrenches, etc) that has been collected to date has included this or any similar stamp as far as we know. There is some skepticism about these push-bottom oilers being wartime (1942-45).
According to your website, the "GMC" logo (with fancy script letters) was first used in 1911.
https://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wi ... ck_History
When was the "[GM]" logo first used?
Thank you for your time and attention.
---------------------------------------------------
Hello Greg,
A version of the General Motors "GM" logo was used for promotional purposes as early as 1931. However, the stamp you see on the oil can is not technically a GM logo. While we have no documentation to confirm, we believe that it may be a stamp created by one of the components, parts or accessory manufacturing subsidiaries of GM.
--------------------------------------------------------
Hi Christo,
Thanks very much for your assistance on this. Some follow-up questions.
Was GM's parts division doing centralized acquisition of common parts from vendors for its many divisions (i.e., GMC, Chevy, Olds, etc) before the 1940's? Is it possible that GM was buying this oiler from Noera, who was stamping the GM into it, and then GM was distributing it to both GMC and Chevrolet in the 1940's during wartime production?
--------------------------------------------------------
Hello Greg,
We cannot confirm your assumption as all of GM's divisions functioned differently. What was done at GMC may or may not have been done at Chevrolet and no documentation exists to verify this.
With regards to centralized acquisition of parts, a fair amount of this was happening in the pre-war period. This practice most likely came into existence at GM because of Alfred Sloan. That said, we have no documentation to confirm the suppliers and to whom their goods were sold.
----------------------------------------------------------
When zoob posts additional photos, I plan to contact Jim and Christo again, sharing the links, to inquire if that inspires any further thoughts or conclusions. I did not want to expand the subject to other tools without actually seeing the tools.
Also, I see that I was mistaken about the original find. I though they were all Noeras and all stamped GM with one cleaned up for the photo. That doesn't really change anything, just recognizing that I now see my error there.
My initial query to the General Motor Heritage Center in Sterling Heights, MI, was answered by a gentleman named Jon Vehko. He passed me on to one of their historians named Christo Datini. Below is a transcript of the exchange. You may draw your own conclusions. I am in the 'cautiously optimistic, but less than definitive' camp.
------------------------------------------------
To Whom It May Concern,
Would you please answer a few historical questions about the GM logo?
I am a WWII military vehicle preservation enthusiast. A fun part of our hobby is collecting the tools and other accessories that were issued to each vehicle from the factory. The GMC G508 CCKW "Jimmy" had a set of tools stowed under the driver's seat or in the back, depending on the model (open cab, dump, etc). Similarly, the Chevrolet G506 1.5 ton truck.
Recently, one of our community members discovered a box of old oil cans, all made by Noera, and all stamped with a "[GM]" logo. A photograph of one may be viewed here: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/50 ... 003208.JPG
We were shocked by this development, since none of the other many tools and equipment (e.g., 3.5-ton jacks, wrenches, etc) that has been collected to date has included this or any similar stamp as far as we know. There is some skepticism about these push-bottom oilers being wartime (1942-45).
According to your website, the "GMC" logo (with fancy script letters) was first used in 1911.
https://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wi ... ck_History
When was the "[GM]" logo first used?
Thank you for your time and attention.
---------------------------------------------------
Hello Greg,
A version of the General Motors "GM" logo was used for promotional purposes as early as 1931. However, the stamp you see on the oil can is not technically a GM logo. While we have no documentation to confirm, we believe that it may be a stamp created by one of the components, parts or accessory manufacturing subsidiaries of GM.
--------------------------------------------------------
Hi Christo,
Thanks very much for your assistance on this. Some follow-up questions.
Was GM's parts division doing centralized acquisition of common parts from vendors for its many divisions (i.e., GMC, Chevy, Olds, etc) before the 1940's? Is it possible that GM was buying this oiler from Noera, who was stamping the GM into it, and then GM was distributing it to both GMC and Chevrolet in the 1940's during wartime production?
--------------------------------------------------------
Hello Greg,
We cannot confirm your assumption as all of GM's divisions functioned differently. What was done at GMC may or may not have been done at Chevrolet and no documentation exists to verify this.
With regards to centralized acquisition of parts, a fair amount of this was happening in the pre-war period. This practice most likely came into existence at GM because of Alfred Sloan. That said, we have no documentation to confirm the suppliers and to whom their goods were sold.
----------------------------------------------------------
When zoob posts additional photos, I plan to contact Jim and Christo again, sharing the links, to inquire if that inspires any further thoughts or conclusions. I did not want to expand the subject to other tools without actually seeing the tools.
Also, I see that I was mistaken about the original find. I though they were all Noeras and all stamped GM with one cleaned up for the photo. That doesn't really change anything, just recognizing that I now see my error there.
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- pjones
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
Greg,
Thanks for the follow up. Its interesting how many gaps we have concerning manufacturing from all eras but especially during the Wartime years when you consider how well the war was documented. Even corporate historians are challenged.
Phil
Thanks for the follow up. Its interesting how many gaps we have concerning manufacturing from all eras but especially during the Wartime years when you consider how well the war was documented. Even corporate historians are challenged.
Phil
pjones
'42 Ford GPW 7127
Need a MVMTS/GMTK?
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Need a MVMTS/GMTK?
Need a jeep toolkit?
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
Greg....you could also send them the link to the 1942 Victory video I posted showing the rectangular box with the sans-serif "GM" in it on the door to GM offices and see if they respond about that being used in 1942.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
Don't know the reason for the GM mark but can confirm Zoob's observations re tools - have NOS CCKW jacks and jack handles with the GM mark straight out of WW2 army surplus crates - no doubt whatsoever.
PS - just thinking about it have seen a few used oilers with GM logo too.
PS - just thinking about it have seen a few used oilers with GM logo too.
- pjones
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
Modo,
Thanks for your input and observations. Could you post a photo of the GM stamped jack and handle so we can compare or contrast the one on yours and mine?
Thanks,
Phil
Thanks for your input and observations. Could you post a photo of the GM stamped jack and handle so we can compare or contrast the one on yours and mine?
Thanks,
Phil
pjones
'42 Ford GPW 7127
Need a MVMTS/GMTK?
Need a jeep toolkit?
'42 Ford GPW 7127
Need a MVMTS/GMTK?
Need a jeep toolkit?
- Wingnutt
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
As luck would have it, I spotted this jack at the flea market today.
I’m no expert on jacks for larger WWII military vehicles, but it looked right, and the deep OD was unmistakable under the grime and gunk.
Turns out to be a Hein-Werner 3A.
And not only a Hein-Werner 3A, but a Hein-Werner 3A with a "[GM]" logo embossed on it!
I’m no expert on jacks for larger WWII military vehicles, but it looked right, and the deep OD was unmistakable under the grime and gunk.
Turns out to be a Hein-Werner 3A.
And not only a Hein-Werner 3A, but a Hein-Werner 3A with a "[GM]" logo embossed on it!
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
All,
I too found a GM marked Noera oiler at my local flea market last week. I'll post photos for your consideration in a follow-up e-mail.
Thanks,
Henry
I too found a GM marked Noera oiler at my local flea market last week. I'll post photos for your consideration in a follow-up e-mail.
Thanks,
Henry
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
All,
As promised. No serifs on the GM.
Thank you,
Henry
As promised. No serifs on the GM.
Thank you,
Henry
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Re: GM Stamped NOERA Oiler
One additional thing. The spout is 3" long so not spec correct. And of course the brass screw on the spout is galled to the can so I can't remove and replace it without tearing the threads up. So, if anyone has ideas on how to un seize it without damaging it let me know.
Thanks,
Henry
Thanks,
Henry
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