Early Bird Gets the Worms
- Wingnutt
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
There are several examples of the kind I recently picked up floating around on etsy, eBay, and also what look like later versions with swing (instead of flexible) spouts. They all have the same markings – references to places where it’s approved (PENNA, NY CITY), the model number (H-27), and patents 2.303.690 (1937) and 2.067.554 (1942) with a note about other patents pending – and a Huffy sticker. I am thinking maybe post-war now.
The “67” measure in the RAPD figures looks like a flipper to me. But it might just be the photo and/or the rendering.
I would hope that it should go without saying that I understand how a physical feature might be used to date a tool. A more pertinent example would be the feet on the corners of the wartime toolboxes, missing from 1950’s models. (And even that isn’t a sure tell, as we have seen some boxes with feet that had other postwar features, hinting at a transitional period in the industry.) I was thinking in terms of branding. If it can be shown that the flipper style dispenser is post-war, then of course it’s important. It would have to be definitive to overcome an embossed patent.
Good luck on more research. Not sure why you’re worried about being initially/temporarily 'mistaken'. This is the way we’ve fumbled through many, many tools. Examples, observations, followed by newly discovered documentation (e.g., ORD 5, Fed Secs, etc) that sometimes helps and sometimes raises more questions.
If I get a chance I'll take more photos of the one I recently found. Then again, it's the day before Christmas Eve and I am making a huge vat of my World Famous Greggnogg. No dispensing mechanism required!
The “67” measure in the RAPD figures looks like a flipper to me. But it might just be the photo and/or the rendering.
I would hope that it should go without saying that I understand how a physical feature might be used to date a tool. A more pertinent example would be the feet on the corners of the wartime toolboxes, missing from 1950’s models. (And even that isn’t a sure tell, as we have seen some boxes with feet that had other postwar features, hinting at a transitional period in the industry.) I was thinking in terms of branding. If it can be shown that the flipper style dispenser is post-war, then of course it’s important. It would have to be definitive to overcome an embossed patent.
Good luck on more research. Not sure why you’re worried about being initially/temporarily 'mistaken'. This is the way we’ve fumbled through many, many tools. Examples, observations, followed by newly discovered documentation (e.g., ORD 5, Fed Secs, etc) that sometimes helps and sometimes raises more questions.
If I get a chance I'll take more photos of the one I recently found. Then again, it's the day before Christmas Eve and I am making a huge vat of my World Famous Greggnogg. No dispensing mechanism required!
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
Now that requires pictures!Wingnutt wrote: ... it's the day before Christmas Eve and I am making a huge vat of my World Famous Greggnogg. No dispensing mechanism required!
1945 Ford GPW 268739 from the Dallas, TX plant.
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
Greg,
All good. Yes, I'll keep everyone informed on the research. Maybe it would be best if I started a new thread about measures so I stop hijacking this one. But the real issue here is... who cares about tools when we're talking about Gregnogg. That sounds far more interesting!
Happy Holidays to you and the family!
And Happy Holidays to all of you tool guys. Hope Santa brings you all the rare and needed tools you are looking for!
Thanks,
Henry
All good. Yes, I'll keep everyone informed on the research. Maybe it would be best if I started a new thread about measures so I stop hijacking this one. But the real issue here is... who cares about tools when we're talking about Gregnogg. That sounds far more interesting!
Happy Holidays to you and the family!
And Happy Holidays to all of you tool guys. Hope Santa brings you all the rare and needed tools you are looking for!
Thanks,
Henry
- Wingnutt
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
mrbill wrote:Now that requires pictures!
Here're the first couple gift batches, chilling overnight...
All I will reveal of my secret recipe is the most important ingredient: Jameson!
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- Wingnutt
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
This morning's Early Bird flea market haul...
- The DOE wrench is a '15 Cornwell MADE IN USA EW 12' 3/8 x 7/16
- The misc 1/2-inch drive sockets are SK (3/4), None Better (19-32), and Crafty (H) (7/16)
- The box is an M5 D28243 armorer's chests. As you guys know, these were used to carry tools and repair parts for the M191 Browning .30 cal MG. I have a few of these now, but this is the first one I've found with the removable tray intact. The leather handle will need replacing. Other than that and some light rust around the bottom seam, this one is in great shape. I think it might be a Union, though no markings.
The punch sets are complete figure (3/16") and number (1/4"), in dove-tail joint boxes, all made by MATTHEWS. Looking vintage 40's to me, but I have to do some research to confirm.
[/quote]
- The DOE wrench is a '15 Cornwell MADE IN USA EW 12' 3/8 x 7/16
- The misc 1/2-inch drive sockets are SK (3/4), None Better (19-32), and Crafty (H) (7/16)
- The box is an M5 D28243 armorer's chests. As you guys know, these were used to carry tools and repair parts for the M191 Browning .30 cal MG. I have a few of these now, but this is the first one I've found with the removable tray intact. The leather handle will need replacing. Other than that and some light rust around the bottom seam, this one is in great shape. I think it might be a Union, though no markings.
The punch sets are complete figure (3/16") and number (1/4"), in dove-tail joint boxes, all made by MATTHEWS. Looking vintage 40's to me, but I have to do some research to confirm.
[/quote]
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- Wingnutt
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
I found out that MATTHEWS has been making figure stamps for 160 years! They started as Joseph Matthews Company and now they're called Matthews Markings Systems (because they do laser marking, electronic marking and RF tags and all kinds of high tech stuff now...), still located in Pittsburgh.
As you guys now, letter and number figure punch sets in various sizes were part of several higher echelon kits…
1945 SNL G-27
These are specified as 3/8", unfortunately.
1944 Navy Class 41 Catalog
These came in several different sizes.
I own a few, in very similar wooden boxes, but these are the first that I have found that were marked/branded on the punches themselves.
Matthews had several WWII contracts with the Army and Navy, which I am excited about.
As you guys now, letter and number figure punch sets in various sizes were part of several higher echelon kits…
1945 SNL G-27
These are specified as 3/8", unfortunately.
1944 Navy Class 41 Catalog
These came in several different sizes.
I own a few, in very similar wooden boxes, but these are the first that I have found that were marked/branded on the punches themselves.
Matthews had several WWII contracts with the Army and Navy, which I am excited about.
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
OMG, Greg, that's on the next block from where I work! Too funny.
Bill
Bill
1945 Ford GPW 268739 from the Dallas, TX plant.
- Wingnutt
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
Great! Then it won't be too much trouble or out of your way to go over there, knock on the front door, and ask for the company historian!
Seriously, I was actually thinking of giving them a ring this week. I'd really like to get the story on why the one set is marked MATTHEWS of Pittsburgh and the other set just MATTHEWS. Also, if they were always marked Safe Hed or if that particular branding or the distinction in the name markings can help date either of the sets.
Seriously, I was actually thinking of giving them a ring this week. I'd really like to get the story on why the one set is marked MATTHEWS of Pittsburgh and the other set just MATTHEWS. Also, if they were always marked Safe Hed or if that particular branding or the distinction in the name markings can help date either of the sets.
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
Seriously, if you can get someone's attention I'd be more than happy to do some groundwork for you.Wingnutt wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:27 amGreat! Then it won't be too much trouble or out of your way to go over there, knock on the front door, and ask for the company historian!
Seriously, I was actually thinking of giving them a ring this week. I'd really like to get the story on why the one set is marked MATTHEWS of Pittsburgh and the other set just MATTHEWS. Also, if they were always marked Safe Hed or if that particular branding or the distinction in the name markings can help date either of the sets.
Bill
1945 Ford GPW 268739 from the Dallas, TX plant.
- Wingnutt
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
I may take you up n that this week, Bill.
I picked up this Craftsman drill press vise (2-7/16” jaws) today. Also a 1944 (“E”) Snap-On swivel socket, 3/8-inch drive, 9/16” opening, and a 1942 Snap-On LA-12 1/2-inch to 3/4-inch drive adaptor. And the muslin bag.
Looks like a 1940’s era Palmgren to me.
Nice markings, although I can’t read the number.
Here’s the Snap-On swivel socket and adapter. One of the two friction balls is snapped off.
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- Wingnutt
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
Early Bird haul this morning....
- J.P. Danielson BET'R GRIP VANADIUM adjustable wrench, 8", with a 9/16" 12-point box end broached in the hanging hole, and an L-4-1 (1941) date code
- Heller Brothers CHROME VANADIUM MasterWrench. These are awesome wrenches. Hinged spanner on the one end and a 9/16" 12-point box end broached in the hanging hole. Tin medic and I had a few NOS examples in the Workpuppies lot. This one is 10" long with a forged-in "7-11 41" code at the end of the handle.
- Vlchek "94" tappet wrench
- NBLB combo wrench (5/8)
- The DOE wrenches are both the same hard-to-find size (25/32 x 5/8) jeep/GMTK wrench. A wartime Billings Vitalloy M-1028S and one of those Williams with all the wartime features but only the < W > on the face and the sizes on the flip side faces.
- The long 15* angle pattern DBE wrench is a Plomb WF-83.
- The 'gem in the rust' in this haul is the seemingly unremarkable single end hex wrench. It's a CHARLES PARKER vise wrench.
- The civilian in the bunch is the combination ice pick/bottle opener. Marked 'AMERICAN ICE CO.' on one side and 'NORTH SACRAMENTO, CALIF.' on the flip side.
- J.P. Danielson BET'R GRIP VANADIUM adjustable wrench, 8", with a 9/16" 12-point box end broached in the hanging hole, and an L-4-1 (1941) date code
- Heller Brothers CHROME VANADIUM MasterWrench. These are awesome wrenches. Hinged spanner on the one end and a 9/16" 12-point box end broached in the hanging hole. Tin medic and I had a few NOS examples in the Workpuppies lot. This one is 10" long with a forged-in "7-11 41" code at the end of the handle.
- Vlchek "94" tappet wrench
- NBLB combo wrench (5/8)
- The DOE wrenches are both the same hard-to-find size (25/32 x 5/8) jeep/GMTK wrench. A wartime Billings Vitalloy M-1028S and one of those Williams with all the wartime features but only the < W > on the face and the sizes on the flip side faces.
- The long 15* angle pattern DBE wrench is a Plomb WF-83.
- The 'gem in the rust' in this haul is the seemingly unremarkable single end hex wrench. It's a CHARLES PARKER vise wrench.
- The civilian in the bunch is the combination ice pick/bottle opener. Marked 'AMERICAN ICE CO.' on one side and 'NORTH SACRAMENTO, CALIF.' on the flip side.
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- Gordon_M
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
Good mixed bunch there.
WF-83 is on my shortages list. Want to add that to my pile - and tell me how big my pile is so I can pay for it ?
WF-83 is on my shortages list. Want to add that to my pile - and tell me how big my pile is so I can pay for it ?
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
Safe Hed TM was filed in '62, first use in Commerce July, 1941.Wingnutt wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:27 amGreat! Then it won't be too much trouble or out of your way to go over there, knock on the front door, and ask for the company historian!
Seriously, I was actually thinking of giving them a ring this week. I'd really like to get the story on why the one set is marked MATTHEWS of Pittsburgh and the other set just MATTHEWS. Also, if they were always marked Safe Hed or if that particular branding or the distinction in the name markings can help date either of the sets.
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield ... 9ootdg.2.1
- Wingnutt
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- Wingnutt
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Re: Early Bird Gets the Worms
Slim pickins at the Early Bird this morning...
The lone tool is a 6" GMTK spec-correct WALCO wrench with a 1942 date code forged-in.
The 'Japanese in a Hurry' language primer is dated 1953. The 1966 ST 11-154-2 Signal Reference Data book contains tech data and wiring diagrams for every nomenclature radio set in the Army inventory at that time. The AN/VRC-12 cheat sheets is a Tobyhanna product, and not dated, but probably also Vietnam era.
The lone tool is a 6" GMTK spec-correct WALCO wrench with a 1942 date code forged-in.
The 'Japanese in a Hurry' language primer is dated 1953. The 1966 ST 11-154-2 Signal Reference Data book contains tech data and wiring diagrams for every nomenclature radio set in the Army inventory at that time. The AN/VRC-12 cheat sheets is a Tobyhanna product, and not dated, but probably also Vietnam era.
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