WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Manufacturers, configurations, Shovels, Axe, Wrenches, Oiler, F/E etc.
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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by hell-fire » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:16 am

BTT,

This need to be where everyone can see it.
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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by d42jeep » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:51 am

It would always be near the top if like Jason suggested it became a sticky. I believe that it's that important to anyone interested in GMTK collecting.
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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by henry501 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:52 pm

Wingnut,

Excellent list! One more piece in the tool kit puzzle to get us to verifiable and thus definitive answers to the age old question of what manufacturers supplied the tools in the tool kits when the vehicle rolled off the factory floor. Also what manufacturers supplied the tools in the GMTK's when those kits were "rolled off the factory floor" so to speak.

All,

I guess what I am about to say is a repetition of what all of you already know but, as a newbie, IMHO, the replies that are trying to differentiate and focus on the importance between "factory" and "motor pool" are very important as well since defining those two scenarios will allow people who are looking to put together either a "factory" vehicle and its tool kit or a "motor pool" vehicle and its tool kit will have the information they need to do that.

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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by henry501 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:00 pm

Wingnut,

Excellent list! One more piece in the tool kit puzzle to get us to verifiable and thus definitive answers to the age old question of what manufacturers supplied the tools in the tool kits when the vehicle rolled off the factory floor. Also what manufacturers supplied the tools in the GMTK's when those kits were "rolled off the factory floor" so to speak.

All,

I guess what I am about to say is a repetition of what all of you already know but, as a newbie, IMHO, the replies that are trying to differentiate and focus on the importance between "factory" and "motor pool" are very important as well since defining those two scenarios will allow people who are looking to put together either a "factory" vehicle and its tool kit or a "motor pool" vehicle and its tool kit will have the information they need to do that.

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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by d42jeep » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:21 am

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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:33 am

No one bothered to answer henry501's question....but note that this list is for QMC & ORD, not for Ford or Willys or Dodge, etc.

The problem is, there has never been a REAL division of tools from what the GOV'T bought and from what the vehicle mfgers provided.

A list called WARTIME GOV'T SUPPLIERS: Might answer your question if it was explained that this list included what teh GOV'T bought, and not what the vehicle mfgers provided.

I think many of us who are interested in a jeep (or Dodge or ?) tool kit are being unduly influenced by these lists that contain only GOV'T contracts over $50,000. Tool mfgers NOT on the list are confusing vehicle tool kit guys because they are being told that certain companies had no contracts....well, not with the GOV'T perhaps, or maybe UNDER $50,000 anyway.

Personally I think the information that DATES tools that might be found in a vehicle kit or a GMTK is ver valuable....tool markings, shapes, sizes, etc. give a good idea of what was made during WWII so the info is good.

Unfortunately it does not tell the story of the vehicle tool kits very well. A prime example of that would be the fact that McKaig-Hatch is not on the GOV'T tool vendor list. Well, Ford used MH and Ford contracts included SPARES for everything including tools....those mfgers would not show up on a VERIFIED QMC & ORD list since they were provided by Ford.

So...to answer henry501s first question; this list is not relevant to what Ford or Willys bought to put into a tool kit. To answer the second part of your question; the GMTK tool kit might have been supplied as a unit by a vendor....or it was assembled by the QMC or ORD piece-by-piece from the vendors found on this list. I can't comment on that myself. If the kits were purchased as a unit then the GOV'T would still either have to have that seller provide "spares" or the GOV'T would have to contract with these mfgers for replacements.

Perhaps the GMTK gurus have discovered that the kits were assembled by the GOV'T and therefore you need to use this list to put one together that way. I didn't see any of the names of the companies that made the GMTK BOXES themselves so unless they were assembled by one vendor or the contracts for the tool boxes were UNDER $50,000 and didn't show up on the list.

As long as you don't feel you MUST use this list to put together a jeep tool kit you will be OK.
Chuck Lutz

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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Wingnutt » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:02 pm

Chuck Lutz wrote:No one bothered to answer henry501's question....
I didn't see a question when I read henry's post for the first time, and I still don't see a question now.

I do see a declarative statement about factory and motor pool toolkits, so he apparently misunderstood the list. I did not catch that. I appreciate you pointing it out.

I thought the header was clear that this list was contracts between government agencies and suppliers, as is the original thread, which the header directs readers to, but to prevent any further chance of confusion I have now added a caveat saying that it does not include contracts that vehicle mfgrs had with tool mfgrs for factory toolkits.
Chuck Lutz wrote:McKaig-Hatch is not on the GOV'T tool vendor list. Well, Ford used MH
What is your source for this, Chuck? As far as I know, there is no substantive evidence that shows that McKaig-Hatch supplied tools to Ford for the factory GPW toolkit. If I'm mistaken, please correct me. I'd love to see it. I have no idea why it's included on the sticky. I've openly asked this question several times now and nobody has yet to show me any proof. I hope you're not referring to the 'pre-war civilian toolkit supplier = wartime toolkit supplier theory.' That's not substantive evidence; it's an unsubstantiated theory.
Chuck Lutz wrote:Ford contracts included SPARES for everything including tools....those mfgers would not show up on a VERIFIED QMC & ORD list since they were provided by Ford.
If Ford bought a life-cycle supply of spare tools in fulfillment of the figures shown in ORD 7 OSPE, I agree that we could probably safely assume that Ford used the same suppliers. I'm not of the opinion that this is as conclusive as you are. As I've said before, I'd like to see the documentation. It would be great if we could understand the spares issue better. As for Willys, we have no such contract information as far as I am aware. Sort of ironic. For Willys there are multiple factory document sources citing supplier names, but no contracts. For Ford, Tom apparently has some contract information, but it doesn't name suppliers.
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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Wingnutt » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:29 am

Chuck Lutz wrote:I didn't see any of the names of the companies that made the GMTK BOXES themselves
The list contains the names of three (3) companies that manufactured toolboxes matching the specifications for Federal Standard Stock Catalog number 41-B-1840, which was the toolbox specified by the ORD in multiple versions of the SNL N-19 and SNL G-27 for the MVMTS and GMTS. One of them is a very well known and popular choice among GMTK collectors: Hamilton Metal Products, in Hamilton, Ohio. The other is just as and perhaps more commonly found and now growing in popularity thanks to the list: Union Steel Chest Corp, in Leroy, NY. A third (Duplex) is less common and lesser known. Each of these companies is on the list because they made the right toolboxes and had multiple contracts to supply them directly to the ORD during the war in the CPA War Supply Contracts books.

I can only conclude that you were either unaware of these manufacturers or that you didn't make sure you weren't mistaken before making a statement about not seeing their names.

A third possibility for your statement is that you have a different list of names of companies that manufactured toolboxes supplied to the ORD for MVMTS and GMTS applications. If that's the case, please provide the names and the proof. As a GMTK collector, I'd be delighted to have additional choices with the same degree of verification.
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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:25 am

The FORD Engine Cranks and FORD Lug Wrenches are found marked with a script "FORD" and "MH" interwoven and in a circle. That "MH" is the marking for McKaig-Hatch. Supposedly there was a SECONDARY source for one or both of those tools and they were simply marked with a script "FORD"....I have seen tens if not hundreds of those two tools combined and I have never seen one with just the "FORD" marking on them. These are original, not repops by the way.

There is currently no documentation on who supplied those tools to FORD but the overwhelming numbers of them with the "MH" on them leaves us with no other rational explanation of how the McKaig-Hatch logo got on all those FORD marked tools.

Those who collect tools for a GPW factory tool kit will agree that those with the "FORD" "MH" markings on them are what has been around for between 10 and 20 years in this country and overseas...

I've collected those two tools with those markings for one simple reason.....Overwhelming empirical evidence...both of them with those markings and the lack of any other options for Ford marked LWs and ECs leaves no other known option. That marking is accepted as correct...as long as the item is in fact an original one.

I would be interested to see if any other Ford factory tool kit collector believes that the "FORD" "MH" marked ones are not what a GPW should have from the factory and if they are in fact actively searching for some examples with a DIFFERENT marking on them!
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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Wingnutt » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:35 am

Thanks, Chuck. Not being a GPW guy, I was thinking about the pliers only. If those tools have no other application or vintage, I see what you mean.
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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by d42jeep » Fri May 01, 2015 3:55 am

BTT
I'm tired of having to look for it!
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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Wingnutt » Fri May 01, 2015 7:07 am

Thanks for the prompt, Don. I just did a major update.
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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Wingnutt » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:45 pm

Notice: I have moved E. J. McAleer to this list with a caveat. They used to be on the B list.

Rationale: In looking over the source documents again, for a completely different reason, I noticed that they had a contract worth $243,000 from 11/42 to 9/43 with the Ordnance Dept for "Boxes." The Signal Corps contracts they had specifically called out "Steel Chests." I don't know if I saw the Ordnance contract before and thought that "boxes" wasn't specific enough, or I just flat out missed it before, but that's a hefty contract, "boxes" could just as easily be referring to "tool boxes," and correct wartime GMTK tool boxes made by McAleer are certainly commonly found. Note that the Ordnance Dept was not consistent with their terminology. Their Hamilton contracts were for "tool boxes" and "chests." The Union contracts were for "steel tool boxes," "steel chests," "tool boxes," and "tool chests." There's so much evidence for them, I think it deserves to be here with the caveat and guys can decide for themselves.
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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by d42jeep » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:32 am

Thanks for that update, Wingnutt. I'm certainly in no position to argue the point. Either I have found a few or a few have found me, I'm not sure which.
-Don
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Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:57 pm

Saw this while looking for something else....might be of interest to tool chest guys, but the list of tools is also interesting:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1944-WW2-U-S-Mi ... 3d00a3ceaf
Chuck Lutz

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