WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Manufacturers, configurations, Shovels, Axe, Wrenches, Oiler, F/E etc.
User avatar
Wingnutt
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:17 pm
Location:

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Wingnutt » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:58 pm

Thanks, Fred. First Aid Kit. (Sorry. Bad habit.)
TEMPORARY DUTY


User avatar
pjones
G-Major General
G-Major General
Posts: 2791
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: East Tennessee

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by pjones » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:38 pm

Wingnutt,
My apologies if this is not the correct place for me to bring this up but your list includes many of the well known tool box makers including Hamilton, Kennedy and Union. What do you make of the large number of boxes found with no indication of manufacturer on them?
Phil
pjones
'42 Ford GPW 7127
Need a MVMTS/GMTK?
Need a jeep toolkit?

User avatar
Wingnutt
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:17 pm
Location:

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Wingnutt » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:23 am

No clue, Phil. I have some ideas, but I’ll answer on the toolboxes thread.

I’m glad you mentioned Kennedy though. They shouldn’t be on this list. They should be on the QUESTIONABLE list. (They had several contracts with the Navy and Air Corps for toolboxes, and they did have one ORD contract, but that was for M5 Steel Chests.)
TEMPORARY DUTY

User avatar
mudbox
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1526
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:09 pm
Location:

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by mudbox » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:21 pm

Can a moderator make this a sticky? At least the verified list, but all 3 lists would be nice to see as stickies. :D
-Jason

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:16 pm

If they have the same dimentions and meet the specifications...why couldn't a Dodge truck that was cannabalized have it's Vlchek wenches put back into circulation if someone needed one for a jeep?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

User avatar
Tin Medic
G-Captain
G-Captain
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:06 pm
Location: Fort Sam Houston

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Tin Medic » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:18 pm

Chuck, I would say that is highly likely if the 40's army works like modern army does now. After 3 tours I have participated in scavenging parts from a destroyed vehicle and throwing them into my rig whether they were the same or not. Some of the places we worked out of spare parts, tools and other equipment wasnt always readily available so grabbed what we could from any non-mission capable vehicle. I think in this case though the point is that Vlchek, for example, wasnt a large contract holder for the government as it was for supplying tools for Dodge vehicles. I believe I got that straight although I am definately not the expert here.
1952 M-37
US ARMY 20955830

User avatar
Silly's MB
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2044
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:53 am
Location: North East Hampshire, UK

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Silly's MB » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:30 am

Chuck Lutz wrote:If they have the same dimentions and meet the specifications...why couldn't a Dodge truck that was cannabalized have it's Vlchek wenches put back into circulation if someone needed one for a jeep?
It could and would of, but the list is for verified suppliers to the ORD and QMC with contracts over $50 000 between 1941 and 1945 and it seems that Vlchek were not.

The list is not a list for tools that could be found in the storage bins in an Ord depot which is where people are getting a little confused. Those bins could contain any wrenches that had been delivered to any manufacturer who supplied General Purpose or Armoured Vehicles,or tools that had been requisitioned directly by the Army or its many components.
Limited access.
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO

Empty vessels make the most noise .......

User avatar
hell-fire
G-Major General
G-Major General
Posts: 3443
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:06 am
Location:

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by hell-fire » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:40 am

Just a thought but let us say Vlchek were not a supplier to the Military but direct to..... in this case Dodge that way they could be supplying large quantities of tools which although ending up in the hands of the Military they (the military) are not buying them direct.
John
Australia
Member VMVC #192
1942 Willys MB-BRT 135673 D.O.D. 4-16-42 Now 97% finished
Image

User avatar
Wingnutt
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:17 pm
Location:

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Wingnutt » Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:34 am

Technically, only one engineers wrench (731-A) crosses over between a Dodge and a Jeep. But the Chevy and GMC engineers wrenches are the same. Or, since it was only an example, pick the 16 oz hammer instead of the wrenches. In these cases, there is no reason why any tool originally issued to any vehicle couldnt end up on another vehicle or in a maintenance depot.

But as Tin, Silly's MB, and hell-fire have alluded to, catch bin tools are not the same thing as issue tools.

The source of the confusion is the same exact crux of the problem on the other thread in which Chuck and Phil are discussing factory and motor pool toolkits, stemming from the longstanding definition of and approach to "motor pool" here as the Island of Lost Tools, instead of as a maintenance depot provisioned by the ORD. (All replacement tools for first, second and third echelon ORD depots came from fourth echelon ORD depots.) Scavenged, pilfered, misappropriated, hand-me-down, lost and found tools are not synonyms for "motor pool."

hell-fire,
Just for completeness, note that Vlchek did have several major contracts with the Air Corps.
TEMPORARY DUTY

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:57 am

Maybe we need to get a definition of "motorpool" here vs. "factory"......I'm a jeep guy so I see it like this:
FACTORY is exactly how the jeep rolled off the line and all things like tools should be as the factory supplied them.
MOTORPOOL does not refer to where it was worked on or what higher echelon provided things like replacement tools. It what is on the jeep wasn't provided by the factory then the jeep is now a product of the motorpool....which means it has ANY mfger item available on it and not just what the factory mfger was.

Any outfit in combat that had to return (or abandon on the march) a jeep that was then picked up by the lowest level outfit following behind might just replace the windshield that had the glass shot out and a dented up hood/fender/grill with what ever they had from another jeep. A late 1942 MB with an "F" marked windshield would now be a "motorpool" jeep. The same MB might now be sporting "F" marked hood/fenders/grill as well. The slat g

This jeep is now a "motorpool" jeep and it does not matter WHO replaced that stuff.....higher echelons or some enterprising guys nearer the front that could do the job.

Motorpool is a term that means it isn't FACTORY....it does not connotate WHO or at what echelon these repairs were done...
A 731-A is a 731-A....and a fender is a fender....
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

User avatar
Mark Tombleson
MZ Radio Operator
Posts: 9836
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 7:58 pm
Location: Selah, Washington

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Mark Tombleson » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:38 pm

Ah, you know if we are going to talk factory and motor pool it would be a good idea to have a standard here.

Per the MVPA:

Restored Class: This class is for vehicles that are restored to the “like new” appearance, either as it left the factory or as it was when issued for service. Vehicles must be at least 20 years old to be entered in the Restored Class.

Motor Pool Class: This class is for vehicles that are restored to the “in use” appearance after being issued for service by the military. Points are not deducted for correct modifications, replacement motors and installed accessories if proper to the era portrayed by the vehicle. There is no vehicle age restriction in the Motor Pool Class.

I'm trying to follow along here but I am having a hard time seeing what original Factory supplied tools in a vehicle and "List A" have in common?
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013

User avatar
Wingnutt
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:17 pm
Location:

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Wingnutt » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:38 pm

Mark Tombleson wrote:I'm trying to follow along here but I am having a hard time seeing what original Factory supplied tools in a vehicle and "List A" have in common?
Beats me. Nothing as far as I know. Did someone say they had something in common?

I have no idea why you guys felt the need to provide definitions for "Factory" vs "Motorpool" class Jeep, but I don't disagree with either Chuck's version or the MVPA's.

We were talking about tools, though.

Willys and Ford provided first echelon maintenance tools for the Jeep in the factory.

The QMC and then the Ordnance Department provided first echelon maintenance tools for the Jeep (and other vehicles) in the field, as replacements for broken or lost tools, to be provisioned to Jeeps (and other vehicles) in the field as needed. They were shipped from the Tank-Automotive Center in Detroit to fourth echelon Ordnance depots and distributed from there to second and third echelon maintenance depots (i.e., motorpool shops).

The tool suppliers that Willys and Ford used have been derived by collectors from documentation, found kits, etc.

The tool suppliers that the QMC and ORD had major tool contracts with are listed above.
TEMPORARY DUTY

User avatar
d42jeep
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2290
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:06 pm
Location: Albany/Fallen Leaf Lake, CA
Contact:

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by d42jeep » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:58 am

After looking at the list for a while, I am wondering who supplied the 1-1/4" putty knife. Smith & Hemenway or any of their Red Devil descendants don't appear, although the RAPD image sure looks like a Red Devil putty knife. Even though the other hand tool manufacturing was sold to Crescent, Smith seems to have established a new company selling putty knives that lives on today as Red Devil Inc. Any ideas?
Don
Ford GPW 76344 DOD 11/42 Built in Richmond, CA

User avatar
Wingnutt
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:17 pm
Location:

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by Wingnutt » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:57 am

Don,

Crescent was selling formerly S&H Red Devil tools, with the same Red Devil logo, to the ORD during the war. I've never been able to untangle that from the modern Red Devil, but I don't know how it's possible for putty knives bearing the same logo as hacksaw frames to be provided by two different companies. If your reference is AA, I dont think they thought this through all the way, or they are unaware of the logos being the same.

Note that Camillus also made putty knives. I don't know about the other knife makers, but it's a strong possibility.

I believe Millers Falls and a few of the other behemoths may have sold them, made by others, but I am still tracking that down.
TEMPORARY DUTY

User avatar
d42jeep
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2290
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:06 pm
Location: Albany/Fallen Leaf Lake, CA
Contact:

Re: WARTIME SUPPLIERS: LIST A (VERIFIED QMC & ORD)

Post by d42jeep » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:57 am

Thanks. It is confusing!
Ford GPW 76344 DOD 11/42 Built in Richmond, CA


Post Reply

Return to “G503 Tools & Equipment (Vehicle & Pioneer)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 60 guests