Fire Extinguisher Question
- lt.luke
- G-General
- Posts: 9899
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 7:56 am
- Location: Oklahoma
- Contact:
for the benifit of a sticky, I have a beautiful post war FE i'll provide a picture of!!
Luke Sparks
MAJ (R), USA
GPW 12078 http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=102532
https://www.homesteadersfinest.com/
MAJ (R), USA
GPW 12078 http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=102532
https://www.homesteadersfinest.com/
-
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1307
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:56 pm
- Location: new york
- Contact:
-
- G-Lieutenant General
- Posts: 6808
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 5:05 pm
- Location: Patagonia, AZ EIEIO
The color of John's factory O.D. Fire Guard is noteworthy -- a deep, semi-glossy olive that's pretty close to O.D. 23070 -- not what one expects from a WW2 piece and not what we think we see in those period photos of painted Fire Guards. I had one of those too only not nearly as nice!!
I dug up my survey results on Pyrene FEs. Should've spent more time collecting data (ie e-Bay images), but the results were somewhat conclusive... I surveyed mostly H-V-T FEs although the non-H-V-T examples showed similar correlations. The serial number prefix letters seemed to be related to the year of production as follows:
R -- 1942 (should only have the 1,688,195 patent reference. Should have the PAT. PEND. handle mark after 4/7/42 in theory. Newark reference without the "8")
S -- 1943 (may have a decal and may be factory O.D.. One patent and should have a PAT PEND on the handle. Newark without the "8").
T -- 1944 (may be a decal and may have the second 2,347,548 patent after 4/25/44 with or without the PAT PEND on the handle. Newark address without the "8")
U -- 1945 (likely brass tag with both patents. Newark may have the "8" postal zone reference.)
The "Newark 8" address reference provides further evidence that the "U" plates are probably 1945 since the postal zone codes didn't appear until 1943 and only for larger cities initially. The zone "8" reference appears in a Pyrene ad from March, 1945 indicating that it was in use at least that early.
The "V" prefix plates I've seen had a "Newark 1" address along with Atlanta, Blue Island (Chicago), Dallas and Los Angeles. They are clearly postwar vintage.
The 2,573,320 patent was issued on 10/30/51 following a two year "pending" period that began 3/18/49. Therefore Pyrenes bearing that patent date from after 10/30/51.
Jeff Q.
AZ
I dug up my survey results on Pyrene FEs. Should've spent more time collecting data (ie e-Bay images), but the results were somewhat conclusive... I surveyed mostly H-V-T FEs although the non-H-V-T examples showed similar correlations. The serial number prefix letters seemed to be related to the year of production as follows:
R -- 1942 (should only have the 1,688,195 patent reference. Should have the PAT. PEND. handle mark after 4/7/42 in theory. Newark reference without the "8")
S -- 1943 (may have a decal and may be factory O.D.. One patent and should have a PAT PEND on the handle. Newark without the "8").
T -- 1944 (may be a decal and may have the second 2,347,548 patent after 4/25/44 with or without the PAT PEND on the handle. Newark address without the "8")
U -- 1945 (likely brass tag with both patents. Newark may have the "8" postal zone reference.)
The "Newark 8" address reference provides further evidence that the "U" plates are probably 1945 since the postal zone codes didn't appear until 1943 and only for larger cities initially. The zone "8" reference appears in a Pyrene ad from March, 1945 indicating that it was in use at least that early.
The "V" prefix plates I've seen had a "Newark 1" address along with Atlanta, Blue Island (Chicago), Dallas and Los Angeles. They are clearly postwar vintage.
The 2,573,320 patent was issued on 10/30/51 following a two year "pending" period that began 3/18/49. Therefore Pyrenes bearing that patent date from after 10/30/51.
Jeff Q.
AZ
- lucakiki
- G-General
- Posts: 17578
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:18 am
- Location: Torino, ITALY
Well, here is the loophole! My purchase was not such a bad thing, then: of course it is not ok for the D-Day, but still not completely out of WWII. Thank you Jeff.AZ Jeff wrote:The!!
U -- 1945 (likely brass tag with both patents. Newark may have the "8" postal zone reference.)
The "Newark 8" address reference provides further evidence that the "U" plates are probably 1945 since the postal zone codes didn't appear until 1943 and only for larger cities initially. The zone "8" reference appears in a Pyrene ad from March, 1945 indicating that it was in use at least that early.
The "V" prefix plates I've seen had a "Newark 1" address along with Atlanta, Blue Island (Chicago), Dallas and Los Angeles. They are clearly postwar vintage.
Luca
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
-
- G-Lieutenant General
- Posts: 6808
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 5:05 pm
- Location: Patagonia, AZ EIEIO
Luca,
In "legal" terms we can call that reasonable doubt -- one can reasonably doubt that the "U"-prefixed Pyrene is postwar...
Then again, in the absence of concrete documentation, one could reasonably doubt the accuracy of EVERYTHING I wrote above...
Now, let's talk about those elusive FINE QUAND extinguishers...
Jeff Q.
Overly Interested in Trivial Crap in AZ
In "legal" terms we can call that reasonable doubt -- one can reasonably doubt that the "U"-prefixed Pyrene is postwar...
Then again, in the absence of concrete documentation, one could reasonably doubt the accuracy of EVERYTHING I wrote above...
Now, let's talk about those elusive FINE QUAND extinguishers...
Jeff Q.
Overly Interested in Trivial Crap in AZ
- lucakiki
- G-General
- Posts: 17578
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:18 am
- Location: Torino, ITALY
Nope! Leave that to mr. Becker (& Dentzer) but please, please, do tell us all what should be told on Fire Guard fire extinguishers.AZ Jeff wrote:
Now, let's talk about those elusive FINE QUAND extinguishers...
Hopefully the distillate from this topic will go in the sticky,for all to read and read again in case they forget.
Luca
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Fire Guard
I have the esxact same FE that John Barton posted a pic of: The Fire Guard with the decal on it. Mine is not the later glossy color, but a true flat OD that looks more like the faded 33070 my jeep is painted AND is not a glossy finish.
It came to me with a bracket and there are a couple marks on it that show it was in the bracket when some wear occured to the FE and the strap protected some of the FE, proving it was in a bracket when the wear occured.
I haven't got it installed on the jeep of course, I have another one in there, BUT I did hold it up against the tub where it would be mounted and noticed that the wear marks on the decal and paint line up EXACTLY with the sole of my left shoe.
I'd say that this is a pretty good indication that it was installed in a jeep as the wear marks like that would not have occured in other installations.
It came to me with a bracket and there are a couple marks on it that show it was in the bracket when some wear occured to the FE and the strap protected some of the FE, proving it was in a bracket when the wear occured.
I haven't got it installed on the jeep of course, I have another one in there, BUT I did hold it up against the tub where it would be mounted and noticed that the wear marks on the decal and paint line up EXACTLY with the sole of my left shoe.
I'd say that this is a pretty good indication that it was installed in a jeep as the wear marks like that would not have occured in other installations.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
-
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1794
- Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:14 am
- Location: Becket, MA
Jeff, thanks for all the info on Pyrenes.
I've got an early December '44 GPW and am looking to get a correct extinguisher for it at some point. Just by coincidence there have been a number of "R" Pyrenes of late on eBay. Not seeing too many "T" series, however.
Has anyone found any correlations between the serial numbers and year of manufacture on the other brands such as Fyr Fighter and Fire Guard?
I've got an early December '44 GPW and am looking to get a correct extinguisher for it at some point. Just by coincidence there have been a number of "R" Pyrenes of late on eBay. Not seeing too many "T" series, however.
Has anyone found any correlations between the serial numbers and year of manufacture on the other brands such as Fyr Fighter and Fire Guard?
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Universal Bracket
Hey Jeff....
Rereading this, I noticed you mentioned the Universal Bracket was introduced in mid '43?
TM 10-1348 April 10, 1942 shows "GPW 17108" as the bracket and we know this EARLY one is the ONE STRAP model, right?
TM 10-1348 Sep. 19, 1942 shows "G8T 17103"
TM 10-1348 Mar. 10, 1943 shows "G8T 17103"
These are the "Universal Bracket" type, and are the TWO-STRAP type.
So the Universal came to the GPW between April and Sep. 1942....
Rereading this, I noticed you mentioned the Universal Bracket was introduced in mid '43?
TM 10-1348 April 10, 1942 shows "GPW 17108" as the bracket and we know this EARLY one is the ONE STRAP model, right?
TM 10-1348 Sep. 19, 1942 shows "G8T 17103"
TM 10-1348 Mar. 10, 1943 shows "G8T 17103"
These are the "Universal Bracket" type, and are the TWO-STRAP type.
So the Universal came to the GPW between April and Sep. 1942....
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
-
- G-Lieutenant General
- Posts: 6808
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 5:05 pm
- Location: Patagonia, AZ EIEIO
Chuck,
I defer to (our favorite) Gospel According to Nabholtz -- with no Easter sacrilege intended. He sayeth mid-'43 and this is consistent with the photo of July '43 GPWs on pg 173 of Farley's Standardized War-Time JEEP.
Having said that, there is a two-band bracket shown in Becker/Dentzer's JEEP that has the flat style bottom but NOT the "universal" top (page 168). Could this be the GPW bracket your earlier manuals refer to? In keeping with other improvements initiated by Henry F., perhaps Ford initiated the "universal" design and it wasn't standardized for both manufacturers until mid-1943?
Jeff Q.
AZ
I defer to (our favorite) Gospel According to Nabholtz -- with no Easter sacrilege intended. He sayeth mid-'43 and this is consistent with the photo of July '43 GPWs on pg 173 of Farley's Standardized War-Time JEEP.
Having said that, there is a two-band bracket shown in Becker/Dentzer's JEEP that has the flat style bottom but NOT the "universal" top (page 168). Could this be the GPW bracket your earlier manuals refer to? In keeping with other improvements initiated by Henry F., perhaps Ford initiated the "universal" design and it wasn't standardized for both manufacturers until mid-1943?
Jeff Q.
AZ
- Gerry42
- ARMY-Master Sgt.
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:22 am
- Location: SC, USA
correct stuff on jeep
wow! lot of information I think I will take the hits from judges and just restore my jeep was one used in korea an then I can just have fun
mule mutt M100 45 MB MBT M601WC22 Ben Hur
MVPA 31190
MVPA 31190
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Just to revisit my own post....the Ford-produced G8T truck ( 1 1/2 ton) was produced with the G8T 17103 bracket known as the "Universal". I have a couple and the true Ford ones have:
GAU
C124188
G8T 17103
Stamped into the bracket just under the top section where the handle on the pump fits....
So.....they WERE available earlier than 1943...
They were listed in the Sep. 19, 1942 TM 10-1348
So I'd say that maybe Nabholtz only referred to them as acceptable for Willys as late as "mid '43" while Ford had used them much earlier?
GAU
C124188
G8T 17103
Stamped into the bracket just under the top section where the handle on the pump fits....
So.....they WERE available earlier than 1943...
They were listed in the Sep. 19, 1942 TM 10-1348
So I'd say that maybe Nabholtz only referred to them as acceptable for Willys as late as "mid '43" while Ford had used them much earlier?
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- lucakiki
- G-General
- Posts: 17578
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:18 am
- Location: Torino, ITALY
A separate section as a sticky would be quite useful, and appreciated : this need has been mentioned many times, from quite a number of gee members.Jon wrote:Once this is all sorted out, what say we make it a new Section on the Tools "Sticky" ?
I'd need good photos to go with it....PM me for my email address if you have photos and want them added.
Comments!
JR
There are on the gee some fire extinguisher experts, and having all fire extinguisher matters in the same place could often give an answer with no need to ask.
A picture of single strap brackets, from the known brands, and the universal brackets. Plus all the F.E. considered correct, with the letter codes denoting year, when this is known. Something Jeff Q. or Greg H. so far showed to know their fair deal about.
Jeff Quirin's posts gave us a bunch of useful information. Possibly a few often asked questions still need a widely accepted, if not definitive, answer so that we all can select some correct fire extinguisher for our jeeps, be they the kind supposedly supplied on delivery or just a kind plausible of being on a jeep in WWII. Once sorted out, they are ready for the sticky.
I am looking forward to it. Thanks, Jon.
Luca
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
- lucakiki
- G-General
- Posts: 17578
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:18 am
- Location: Torino, ITALY
Re: Fire Extinguisher Information.
I am bubbling this up, given some recent revived interest in in Fire Extinguisher information.
Maybe some day soon the sticky, as mentioned in this thread, will benefit from a review of extinguishers and brackets .
That way all concerned will be able to check what they want to know.
I feel we are getting there!
Maybe some day soon the sticky, as mentioned in this thread, will benefit from a review of extinguishers and brackets .
That way all concerned will be able to check what they want to know.
I feel we are getting there!
Luca
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
- Chance
- G-Second Lieutenant
- Posts: 591
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:50 pm
- Location: Crystal Lake, IL
Re: Fire Extinguisher Question
Okay, yes I'm resurrecting this but only because there was talk of putting together a "sticky" on fire extinguishers as permanent reference.
I cannot find it. If it is on the Gee can someone post the link?
If not, I'm happy to compile the documentation, get group consensus and publish.
I have a January 1943 Willys MB.
I too (I believe after hours of re-reading posts) am settling on a S-O-S Fire Guard, with a patent number on it and based upon the website Vintage Fire Extinguishers (which doesn't seem to be online at the moment) had a picture of said F.E. with a serial number starting with the letter "L". Considering this was in production for 10 years (according to the same website) I'm shooting for a serial number with the lowest possible letter in it.
Anyway, do we have a sticky on this?
I cannot find it. If it is on the Gee can someone post the link?
If not, I'm happy to compile the documentation, get group consensus and publish.
I have a January 1943 Willys MB.
I too (I believe after hours of re-reading posts) am settling on a S-O-S Fire Guard, with a patent number on it and based upon the website Vintage Fire Extinguishers (which doesn't seem to be online at the moment) had a picture of said F.E. with a serial number starting with the letter "L". Considering this was in production for 10 years (according to the same website) I'm shooting for a serial number with the lowest possible letter in it.
Anyway, do we have a sticky on this?
Chance
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 61 guests