My newly aquired Hotchkiss

1956-1966, Hotchkiss, Quarter-ton jeep® series, Wanted, For Sale, and Knowledge Base
Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:25 pm

Hello. Thanks to all for their help. I don't mean to seem dense or unwilling to listen, but I'm very confused about certain details on this jeep.

How do you identify a Ford hood? The only reference I get is to hood hinges, and there I seem to have 7 segments, with the two outer segments being longer/wider. This doesn't correspond with the Ford 11 segments, nor the MB 9 segments or the WOF 13 segments.
I agree with the French grill, yes. The radio box as well, no doubt - does that mean my jeep was 12v at one point? (Could that be why my fuel gauge doesn't work?) Note that the tub doesn't have holes for the additional 6V battery, though.
Early French tub I agree on as well, can't be much else unless it's REALLY welded together. The lack of notch is a dead giveaway, but the wheel arch fillet (as per this page http://www.sacarr.co.uk/mymvs/jeep/m201mb/m201mb4.htm ) doesn't seem to be welded. Is that typical early French tub as well? How about the toeboard gussets? They're MB style, not WOF or ACM style - unless I've misunderstood?

Engine doesn't have "WOF" anywhere, but it DOES have reinforcement between the head bolts as well, which makes it post-war of some kind - if I've understood correctly.

Finally, I looked for the Chassis number on the left frame leg (in the engine bay) and found "1512" stamped there. That should (according to http://m201.com/chassis/chassis.htm) make it a 1956 frame. ;)


What do you guys think?

Fabrizio
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Fabrizio » Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:41 pm

Hi again,
I say Ford hood because of the hat channel, underside and hinge side of the hood, that is made from 3 parts, this us typical of Ford hoods.
The wheel arch triangle is typical french, as you can see it is a separate part, on US tubs it's made from a bend in the vertical wheel panel.

I have the same tub that I believe to be early WOF: it has all the WOF features, but has MB style cowl reinforcements, and MB style gussets (shape of the 3 holes).
From what I've read, it was made with US steel presses and tooling, or maybe just using surplus US panels.

Your cylinder head is either wif or us postwar (CJ), but for the block you'll have to look at the cast numbers on the side.
But your engine serial (behind oil filter) looks french to me, because no prefix (MBxxxxxx or GPWxxxxxx)

Early french tubs also had foot starter switch (in dash on later m202s), like your tub, and mine, have
GPW #238336
GPW #3606
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari

Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:27 pm

Now that makes sense.

What about the fenders?

Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:56 pm

The cylinder head has WOF stamped. I think the entire engine is WOF.


Alright, as I said, I found the WOF frame number. This frame number puts the frame at 1957 (not 1956 as I said before), accoridng to m201.com. This corresponds well with the early French tub.

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The glove box has a tag, it seems. The date indicates 1963, which would be the second time the jeep was through French workshops. The number is very puzzling though, since it doesn't fit into the ranges quoted below:
MALT Year MALT Year
23842 - 1963 35632 - 1971
24063 - 1964 35964 - 1971
25987 - 1964 36909 - 1972
26360 - 1965 37114 - 1972
26813 - 1965 37916 - 1973
27847 - 1966 38396 - 1973
29305 - 1966 38928 - 1974
30623 - 1967 39201 - 1974
32457 - 1968 39543 - 1975
32787 - 1969 40276 - 1975
34149 - 1969 40871 - 1976
34260 - 1970 41215 - 1976
35039 - 1970 41337 - 1977
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There is a MALT plate on the inside of the frame - should I try to remove the paint from this so I can find that number as well?

Fabrizio
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Fabrizio » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:35 pm

Hi Seff,
Can't help much with WOF/MALT numbers, as my head is already melting down with GPW things!

For the fenders, here's what I know from mines:

Ford:
-early ones have a small F stamped on top
-all have the inner panel made of ONE stamped sheet
The battery housing, seen from outside, has a rounded front edge
Willys:
-all have inner panel made of several (3 IIRC) panels.
The battery housing, seen from outside, has a square front edge.

WOF:
I know 12 and 24volts left ones have holes for the air filter bracket.
I also know that voltage regulator mounting ribs disappeared at some point.
I honestly don't know if there is a difference between early 6v WOF and MB, but there should be something
GPW #238336
GPW #3606
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari


Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:26 pm

Thanks. I forgot to look at fenders, was too busy working on other stuff.

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Fabrizio
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Fabrizio » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:40 pm

Could have been worst, at least the screwdriver stays in place :D
GPW #238336
GPW #3606
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari

Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:57 pm

There are no surprises in this so far. Still debating whether I need to take the tub off, or I can fix this from the outside.

All things equal, I'd rather have rust in places like this, than mechanical failures. :D

Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:10 pm

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Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:39 am

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Wingnutt
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Wingnutt » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:00 am

Hi Seff,

Nice jeep.
Ben Dover wrote:The W.O.F frames are superior to the MB frame as they have extra reinforcing...
One of the reinforcements Ben is referring to is a steel U-Channel inside each front chassis leg.

I can provide better, closer photos if you really need them, but these show them fairly well or you can go to the website that Fabrizio linked earlier, which also shows them.

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Your Hotchkiss frame doesn’t seem to have them...

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lucakiki wrote:Evinrude or Johnson? :)
Seff wrote:I was not given an explanation as to why the original fuel pump was circumvented.
When I bought my project jeep, there was no fuel tank. Bubba was using the spare 5-gallon liquid container in its bracket on the back of the jeep as the gas tank. He had run a line through the right tool compartment, where a rubber hand primer pump just like yours was located! :shock: :lol:
TEMPORARY DUTY

Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:31 pm

It's a very early WOF frame, so no reinforcement.

Bubba is an inventive guy. ;)

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Wingnutt
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Wingnutt » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:00 pm

Seff wrote:It's a very early WOF frame, so no reinforcement.
That must explain it. I don't believe I've seen one before.
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Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:43 pm

I see no other explanation - a WOF frame number, in the same place as the Gpw number would have been, and no holes from an MB frame number. Are there other identifying features; the shock mounts?

Fabrizio
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Fabrizio » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:04 pm

I think I remember that you could tell WOF from WO frames looking for a particular indent on the bottom of the radiator crossmember, I'll look for the exact tip
GPW #238336
GPW #3606
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari

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