My newly aquired Hotchkiss

1956-1966, Hotchkiss, Quarter-ton jeep® series, Wanted, For Sale, and Knowledge Base
Seff
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My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:12 am

Link to description from the seller's site: http://www.kimh.dk/m201/

First of all; I haven't picked it up yet, so I'm going by pictures so far.

It has some rust, particularly under the gas tank.
The transmission doesn't really seem to have syncros between 2nd and 3rd gears.

I've been having fun trying to identify everything. The frame looks like it's MB, as well as the tub - at least from the middle of the door openings and rearward. I don't see a notch in the dash, and I DO see a weld on both sides of the tub in the middle of the door opening - but at the same time the cowl pillar isn't Hotchkiss... So I'm excited to see what I actually have.
Previous owner said it's 6 volt, and the speedo is still MPH. The hood has 9 segments on the hinge (MB?) but the grill is Hotchkiss, it seems. Fuel pump has been bypassed, IIRC.

Thoughts? Something I missed?

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Ben Dover
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Ben Dover » Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:44 am

A diamond in the rough,regardless of its history,this Jeep is going to make you very happy.I would not mind owning it. :wink: Note the brake and clutch pedal have been swapped the diamond pattern is CJ3A/M-38/M-38A1.
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Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:03 am

Thank you - yes, I think I'll be very happy. It'll be used for reenactment, so it's better that it's a salad than a pristine example.

Good to know about the pedals - the steering wheel is WOF as well, yes? What are the two brackets on the back of the windshield for?

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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Ben Dover » Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:10 am

All I see are the brackets for the Rifle Holder.
And remember, there are many beautifully restored MB''s that have Hotchkiss and WOF replacement parts on them.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:51 am

Ah, rifle holder. I'm new to the details of G503s.

I'll be fixing rust and those crooked welds on the tub, and then we'll see what needs fixing.


Fabrizio
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Fabrizio » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:54 am

Hi, congrats for your new Jeep!
Your air filter is the early WOF one, mirror looks like WOF too, windshiel should be MB/GPW from what I see.
The yellow paint on the oil filler cap is also typically french army, in case you wonder!
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wo2jeeper
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by wo2jeeper » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:28 am

Tub is early WOF, nice and many details same as ACM tub

Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:32 am

I was wondering if this jeep had even BEEN French at all, but that's settled, then.

What are the thoughts on the tub? Welded together from a MB rear and a WOF front?

EDIT: Just saw comment above, Hotchkiss tub it is.

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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Fabrizio » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:19 pm

Seff,
On this page : http://www.sacarr.co.uk/mymvs/jeep/m201mb/m201mb1.htm you'll find a lot of the basic differences between us ww2 and french parts.
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Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:27 pm

Yeah, I know that page. The cowl pillars being curved and not bent doesn't indicate "hotchkiss tub", but the lack of a notch does, which is why I'm confused.

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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Fabrizio » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:55 pm

Check the triangular plates on the front inner corners of the rear wheel arches: us made tubs have them with the two upper angles folded and spot welded and the bottom being just a fold , while on french tubs the triangle is a separate part, so all 3 sides spot welded.
When you'll have the Jeep you can also check the front gussets (type of holes, and presence or not of a serial ).
Also check the firewall, engine side, behind where the fuel filter should be, and same spot on drivers side: french tubs usually have serials there.
The holes for the side curtains, that your jeep has, should be only on US Jeeps.
Also, the weld you see in the middle of the driver side panel is normal, on every Jeep.

I have a spare tub that also looks to be a mix of US and french features, it might be a very early Hotchkiss one, maybe made with some surplus US panels. Mine has US style cowl pillars and front gussets, no notch on dashboard and french type triangular corner plates.
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wo2jeeper
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My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by wo2jeeper » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:16 pm

This is an early hotchkiss tub. Only missing notch in dashboard and so it is easy confused with wwII tubs. There are some other small details as missing a bracket in the cowl. But for the rest identical with a Willys tub. What I have been told is that these were made in the early 50's with the original ACM presses.

Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:48 pm

Thanks to both of you. I was not aware that an early version like this exists.

Could the hood be WWII? Should I look for a serial number under the current paint?

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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Fabrizio » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:08 pm

Hotchkiss hoods had no wood blocks, and were a bit longer, going one or two inches past the grill, so yes it may very well be a Willys or Ford Hood. I think it's a Ford hood, you should find a little script F on the hinge, body side, the side facing you when you look at the engine.
You can find a lot of things under the paint, I did find the original blue drab numbers, two sets of "USA", two stars, and 4 different hood numbers on mine!
Just go slowly, be careful and don't rush. Sand down a spot where there is usually nothing, so you can see how many layers you have, and if original layers are still there (metal/red primer/olive drab).
If you're lucky enough to have the original paint under, then you can try a lot of techniques (sanding, scratching, chemicals, etc...).
But again, don't rush, once it's gone, it's gone!
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"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari

Seff
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Re: My newly aquired Hotchkiss

Post by Seff » Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:28 pm

I figure by the time I'm done welding, it's going to need paint anyway.

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