Bridge Plates

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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REG
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Bridge Plates

Post by REG » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:58 pm

Someone very kindly pointed out that my plates are wrong.

They currently have 2/2 in black on the yellow circular plate.

I was told that this was completely inappropritae, but I cannot remember why.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks
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Post by REG » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:22 pm

The more I look around, the more it seems to be that:

1. The plate can show the weight of the vehicle alone '2'; or

2. The plate shows the weight of the vehicle and trailer and also the weight of the vehicle alone '3/2'. The '3' being the Jeep ('2') plus the trailer ('1').

So my 2/2 is wrong.

If we left it up to the average MP guarding a bridge to add up the trailer and vehicle weight separtely before he let anyone cross, my guess is that we'd never have won the war.

Giving him either the total weight with tralier or without would have kept the great war machine rolling!

But then I get thrown by the couple of photos of the D-Day Jeep with '5' on the front! :roll: :roll:
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Post by groucho » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:23 pm

As far as I'm aware both British & American Jeeps used numbers ranging from 2 - 5 with the rating depending on, a) who painted it on b) what the jeep was towing c) what the jeep was loaded with.

So I can't really see what the problem would be with 2/2 :roll:

EDIT - As far as im aware the 'offical' rating for a jeep was 2 and a jeep trailer was 1 therefore the standard numbering would be 2/1

However we all know that reality was anything but 'standard' :D

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Post by Steven Malikoff » Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:54 am

G'day Reg,
There was a good 3-page article on Bridge Classification Plates in Military Modelling magazine, May 1976. Since you probably don't have it, I'll paraphrase some of what it said.

The intention of the classification was to group together vehicles of similar gross weights and identify them by a code number. Similarly bridges, permanent and temporary structures such as folding boats, pontoons and girders were also classified. To achieve this the War Office set out guidelines in pamphlets and and publications for these codes to be displayed on vehicles and trailers, and the approaches to road bridges.

Closer examination of the illustrated pamphlets showed examples that frequently disagreed with te accompanying text. For example a 3-ton Wireless lorry is given as an 8 but the picture shows 9.

It was decided to use a disc of approximately 9 inches diameter, yellow in colour, on which to display the vehicle's number. The positioning of the disc on the front of the vehicle or trailer was to be fixed on the offside between the edge of the radiator and the outer edge of the mudguard. If the vehicle has no mudguard, sign is fitted in position corresponding to offside mudguard.

Variations on the yellow disc appeared, the three most common of these were:

Format A: (Solid colour background, black number) the standard and most widely used, either as a plate or painted disc. Used in all theatres of operation and still fitted today.

Format B: (yellow ring, black number with thin yellow edge) This version was subdued for the purpose of vehicle camouflage and was favoured by many front line units. In some cases the yellow outline was omitted.

Format C: (8-segment dashed black circle, black number) Used in the Western Desert, the class number being painted directly on the vehicle without the yellow colour.

The classes were:
Class 1: Motorcycles with or without sidecars, small saloon cars, jeeps, 10-cwt 2-wheeled trailers.

Class 2: Jeeps, light saloon cars, light utilities eg. Austin 10hp, Humber Snipe, most 15-cwt 2-wheeled trailers.

Class 3: Bren carriers, heavy saloon cars, some 15-cwt trucks eg. Ford WOT2, Chev C15, some 2-ton 4-wheeled trailers.

Class 4: Daimler Dingo & humber Mk. 1 Scoutcars, 2-ton Motor Boat trailers.

Class 5: Most 15-cwt trucks, including Chev C15A, Dodge, Morris C8 portees, Daimler Dingo and Ford Lynx, White M3A1 scoutcars, universal carriers, 4-wheeled machinery trailers.

Class 6: Most 30-cwt 4x4 lorries, Field Artillery Quads, 5-ton 4-wheeled Radar trailers.

Class 7: Some 3-ton 4x2 lorries including Bedford OYD, Commer Q4, Canadian Chev and Ford 3-tonners both CMP Cab 12 and civilian style, Ford F60L 40mm Bofors, Daimler & Humber Armoured Cars.

Class 8: The majority of Chev and Ford C60L, M14 International halftracks and 5-ton 4-wheeled GS trailers.

Class 9: Probably the biggest class with some 4x2 3-tonners eg. Bedford OYDs, 4x4 3-tonners including Austin K5, Thornycroft TF/AC4/1, Chev & Ford CMP No 13 Cabs. The majority of 3-ton 6x4 and 6x6 trucks eg. Albion BY, AEC Marshal, Leyland, GMC, Catterpillar D9 tractors, 5-ton 4-wheeled laundry trailers.

Class 10: Thornycroft WZ/TC4 tippers, 7-ton 6-wheeled recovery trailers.

Class 11: Diamond T 4-ton 6x6, pontoon carriers and wreckers.

Class 12: AEC Matador, Leyland retriever 3-ton 6x4 machinery lorries, Diamond T 6x6 crane, Mack LMSW 5-ton 6x6 heavy breakdown trucks.

Class 14: Ward La France 10-ton 6x4 wrecker.

Class 15: Stuart tanks, Staghound armoured cars.

Class 16: Covenanter and Valentine tanks.

Class 17: Mack NM6 6-ton 6x4 and White 6x6 GS trucks.

Class 18: Diamond T M20 12-ton tractors, Foden 10-ton 6x4 Printing and Photographic Processing vehicles, Valentine bridgelayers.

Class 21: Mack NR9 10-ton 6x4 and NM310-ton GS trucks.

Class 24: Caterpillar D8 tractors.

Class 30: Cromwell tanks, Ram II APC, Sexton 25-pdr SP guns.

Class 33: M19 3-inch SP guns, Sherman tanks.

(note the above is paraphrased, it was a much more comprehensive list with diagrams and photos)

Where vehicles were permanently used to tow guns or trailers / semi-trailers, the bridge classification plate was divided in half horizontally and carried two sets of numbers, the top being the code for the tractor plus gun/trailer, the lower being the tractor alone.
Steve Malikoff
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Post by Tony Norton » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:46 pm

I spent a stint in the military police and this is what I know about bridge plates weight markings. A bridge had a tonnage rating that it could accommodate at one time.

This was not a huge problem on short span bridges as vehicles were on and off quickly, so you just made sure the vehicle crossing was under the posted load rating of the bridge. However, on long span bridges you had to ensure that the total supported weight did not exceed the bridges rated capacity.

Say you had a bridge a 1000-feet long with a capacity of 100 tons. Figure 20 feet for the average vehicle with a 20 foot interval = 40 feet per unit. Therefore, your 1000-foot bridge could have 25 vehicles on it at any one time based on interval unit. So, you have a sheet of paper with 25 rows and you watch the vehicles as they approach you to cross and add the numbers on the bridge weight plates based on (1. Vehicle only = top number, (2. Vehicle with trailer = bottom number.

Using a convoy of jeeps with trailers as an example with a combined length of about 19 feet (which fits inside the interval unit) you could have 25 jeeps and trailers on your bridge if the lead vehicle stopped at the far end.

A jeep weighs in at about 2300 pounds and can carry up to 1000 pounds of payload over a military standard road. This puts maximum weight at 3000 pounds or 1.65 tons. The bridge weight plate should be rounded up to the nearest tonnage, which would be 2 tons. This would be the number on the plate IF the vehicle NEVER pulled a trailer.

Since our jeeps are pulling trailers weighing about 500 pounds, which have 1000 pounds of payload puts the maximum weight a 1500 pounds, rounded up to the nearest tonnage, which would be 1 ton.

This number would be added to the maximum weight of the towing vehicle and placed as the lower number on the plate. 2+1=3 so your bridge plate would read 2/3.

As an MP controlling the weight of vehicles on the bridge since our convoy is made up of jeeps with trailer, you would add the lower numbers as the vehicles approached you. 25 x 3 = 75 tons, so you could have all 25 jeeps and trailers on the bridge at one time and be well within the bridges weight capacity. If the convoy were one of mixed equipment the weight distribution would be different. Say you had five tanks intermixed with the jeeps, you would have to stop the approaching vehicle when you tallied 100 tons and wait for several intervals to open before you let another vehicle on the bridge.

I can see where the 2/2 plates could be used as if you take the unrounded weights you would have 1.65+.75=2.4 at maximum weight. If you reduce the maximum payloads to off road weights you would drop 1000 pounds putting the unit at 3800 or 2/2.

So, I would say your bridge plate should read 2/3 if the jeep is operated on roads, and 2/2 if operated off-road in both cases with a trailer. If no trailer is towed the plate should just be a big "2" in the middle of the plate.
Tony Norton
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Bridge Plates

Post by Derek Eddlestone » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:30 pm

Tony,

Thankyou for your post. It's the first time I've seen a clear explanation of this topic.

Derek.

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Post by svenn » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:10 am

Hi! I would say the highest number should be first,, not 2/3 but 3/2, probably to be sure that no bridge guard just added the lowest numbers...

just a moment,, and I will post some pics..

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Post by svenn » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:22 am

Heres a 3/2 -- I also have seen a ww2 pic of 2/2, so your sign is not that incorrect.... I will try to find it a post it for you,, so then you can print it,,and keep in your glove compartment for the jeep police... :D



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Post by svenn » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:36 am

Can't find the 2/2 pic.. but i am sure..... someone help Reg out here,,so can sleep again with his 2/2 sign.. :lol: :wink: :wink: and so that I can sleep again,, having made this statement... :? :?

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Post by Alasdair Brass » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:37 am

Hi guys,
I'd be keen to find a reference to a 2/2 bridge plate. I researched bridge plates a couple of years ago and never found any such thing in any popular jeep books. Did I miss some?

Regards
Al
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Post by groucho » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:19 am

I've got a couple of pictures of British vehicles during Operation Overlord with 2/2 bridge plates. they arn't easy to make out but I will scan them in for you.

Edit - I've tried scanning them in but it just makes the picture fuzzy and you can't make out the bridge plate. However for those of you how have 'The Wartime Jeep In British Service' by Gavin Birch go to page 136 and look at picture number B 5460. its shows a jeep with a '2/2' plate although it is described as a '1' plate by the caption.

I'll try and get a better picture later.

Nick

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Post by Jamie M » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:34 am

Not a 2/2 but 5. Do you think Monty had weight problem.

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Post by Derek Eddlestone » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:27 am

I'd like to see him do that to a jeep today :(

Derek.

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Post by Alasdair Brass » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:08 am

groucho wrote:I've got a couple of pictures of British vehicles during Operation Overlord with 2/2 bridge plates. they arn't easy to make out but I will scan them in for you.

Edit - I've tried scanning them in but it just makes the picture fuzzy and you can't make out the bridge plate. However for those of you how have 'The Wartime Jeep In British Service' by Gavin Birch go to page 136 and look at picture number B 5460. its shows a jeep with a '2/2' plate although it is described as a '1' plate by the caption.

I'll try and get a better picture later.

Nick
Hi Nick,
The photo in my book is nowhere good enough to say it is 2 over 2. It could be just about anything in my book and not at all good enough to accept as proof of the theory.

Best regards
Al.
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Post by Peewee » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:56 am

Can't find the 2/2 pic.. but i am sure..... someone help Reg out here,,so can sleep again with his 2/2 sign.. and so that I can sleep again,, having made this statement...

Svenn
Hi guys,
I'd be keen to find a reference to a 2/2 bridge plate. I researched bridge plates a couple of years ago and never found any such thing in any popular jeep books. Did I miss some?

Regards
Al


Here is a WWII pic, taken in Italy, where you can clearly see a 2/2 bridge plate.
Source Bock Jeep, Jeep, Jeep #2 site 164

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Last edited by Peewee on Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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