Carter WO made in Japan

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:33 pm

After seeing the Okinawa photos of trucks, jeeps, trailers being rounded up all over the Pacific and being sent to Japan for rebuilding (1949 dated pics) I wonder if the carburetors are like the 1/4 ton trailers. I believe they not only refurbished American made trailers but fabricated damaged or missing parts to return the trailers to service in time for the Korean War. Since none of the original photos from this thread still exist on the gee....inspecting each component and comparing to Carter components is not possible at this time.

Since we never see the BOWL listed in the Carter parts tech sheets it seems those items may not have been original and fabricating them would be the only method available to rebuild and eventually copy the entire carburetor. We don't know if the Aisan is a 539S or a 698S (circa 1948) either.

With the surplus of spare parts all over the Pacific for vehicles....it is possible they too were rounded up and sent to Japan to use to produce g530 carbs but with no bowls available (?) they would have to reverse engineer them. While there is no "CARTER" on the bowl, the patents are present so perhaps there is/was a way the American forces could have them produced and eventually get Aisan an agreement with Carter to produce them strictly for the US forces, not the civilian market?

There is more to this story, but if anyone has detailed photos of an AISAN so we can determine if it is a 100% "539S" or if it is a "698S" which would mean it was licensed by Carter in 1948 or later.

Another good thread that needs photos hosted on the gee and not out in cyberspace...
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947


Vic ALLAN
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:17 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by Vic ALLAN » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:29 pm

Just had a quick look at the carb again...
No patent numbers
seems to have the pointed molding on the nozzle plug
only marking on the bowl cover ....AISAN KOGYO NAGOYA

Seems to have a carter throttle body on it....has 200 on the bottom face ...probably as a result of some refurbishing before it got to me ....

I will take some pics later

Vic
1944 mb Eng MB301090 Old Girl
1942 mb 110674 Bruce
1942 mb 131196 WA
GPW 259102 Old Yella
GPW 50962 Henry

Vic ALLAN
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:17 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by Vic ALLAN » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:16 am

Ok .....I will try to post some pics .....

Sorry ...not sure why some are sideways .....but i guess you can see enough



Vic
Attachments
DSC00121.JPG
Aisin
DSC00121.JPG (70.34 KiB) Viewed 496 times
DSC00120.JPG
Aisin
DSC00120.JPG (66.23 KiB) Viewed 496 times
DSC00119.JPG
Aisin
DSC00119.JPG (80.59 KiB) Viewed 496 times
DSC00118.JPG
Aisin
DSC00118.JPG (85.25 KiB) Viewed 496 times
DSC00117.JPG
Aisin
DSC00117.JPG (88.69 KiB) Viewed 496 times
DSC00116.JPG
Aisin
DSC00116.JPG (78.02 KiB) Viewed 496 times
DSC00115.JPG
Aisin
DSC00115.JPG (101.29 KiB) Viewed 496 times
1944 mb Eng MB301090 Old Girl
1942 mb 110674 Bruce
1942 mb 131196 WA
GPW 259102 Old Yella
GPW 50962 Henry

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:33 am

Thanks Vic...

Here is what I can see:

1) Air Horn: It may be an original 539S (no "circle C") or it may be made by Aisan.
2) Bowl Cover: Obviously made by Aisan and so marked.
3) Bowl: Since it not only has no patents on the front, but no stampings on the REAR of the bowl, I would think this is an Aisan copy.
4) Throttle Rod: This has the later 636 style keeper holding it to the throttle shaft, not the 539S style bayonet style spring and keeper.
5) Flange: Here is where it gets interesting....a flange with a vacuum port in it and "200" stamped on the gasket face and a casting number on the front foot is what was used on the MA and the 450S carbs. Since Aisan did not include the other markings anywhere except on the bowl cover, I am of the opinion this flange is not something Aisan produced.

With this in mind, I still feel that either
a) Aisan assembled carbs from vehicles returned from WWII (and those parts they produced) which would make them "rebuilds" or

b) Aisan assembled carbs from left-over NOS parts( and those they produced) making them "new" carburetors.

Additional things I would check would be the linkage and look for the "circle C" marks indicating Carter made them

I have no idea when or where the MA flange was put on this carb, but it isn't something Aisan produced.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

User avatar
artificer
banned
Posts: 13558
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:46 am
Location: SINGAPORE

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by artificer » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:04 pm

Willys Jeeps were made under license in Japan by Mitsubishi from 1953 onward thru 1997.
The early models used Mitsubishi manufactured [Hurricane F head] gas/petrol engines & that is most likely where these 'Carter - Aisan' carburettors originated.

Later models used Mitsubishi Astron [2 & 2.4 litre engines from memory] gas/petrol engines &/or 2.7 litre diesel engine [I owned one of these diesels in the mid/late 1990's 30MPG!]. https://web.archive.org/web/20051130061 ... ay1000.gif
https://web.archive.org/web/20100911055 ... Japan.html
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:22 pm

The flange is stamped "200" which means it was made for the MA carburetor, not the 539S...but the throttle shaft assembly is not from an MA carburetor and neither is any other part on this one.

Willys may have licensed the jeep for Mitsubishi to go into the civilian mfger of jeeps but Carter may have had something to say about that if Mitsubishi planned on going into production to make NEW carburetors, on the other hand, making parts for the US Gov't to refurbish existing carbs/NOS parts/etc. would be another thing altogether.

Besides, in 1953 the Carter of choice was no longer the 539S it was the 596/636 series and getting a license to produce them from CARTER, not Willys would have been what happened.

Note that the linkage is not of a 596/636 style but the throttle rod & keeper are of the 596/636 type. Again, Carter did not offer a replacement BOWL for the 539S (or other jeep carbs) so the bowl as well as the bowl cover are of Japanese mfger.

Nope...more likely this is a put together in Japan by the US forces in preparation for the Korean War from material scrounged up after WWII ended.

I wonder what Al Brass' Aisan carburetor has for a flange on it and if it is an MA (200) or an unstamped version of the 539S or other Carter carb?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

Vic ALLAN
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:17 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by Vic ALLAN » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:37 pm

Hi....
The throttle linkage is carter....patent hard to read but looks like 2173380....also a number stamped could be 14 or I4?

Throttle plate carter...2-89... I am not sure if i replaced the throttle plate ....I certainly have had it out ....which raises the question ...Did I replace shaft and linkage? Can not remember ....too many carbs for my old brain ....I will look thru left over parts box and check for different throttle linkages. I would have put the keeper on the throttle rod also...

Posting a pic of throttle base with "200" stamped

Vic
Attachments
DSC00125 (648 x 486).jpg
DSC00125 (648 x 486).jpg (79.72 KiB) Viewed 445 times
1944 mb Eng MB301090 Old Girl
1942 mb 110674 Bruce
1942 mb 131196 WA
GPW 259102 Old Yella
GPW 50962 Henry

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:28 am

Hi Vic....

Is there anything cast into the bowl on the BACK like "0-614" and a "circled C" and "circled R"? I have one of those bowls so marked but with NO patents on the front at all and NO "0.475" anywhere on it either. It came to me on a carb-salad of 539/636 and maybe even other period Carter components.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

Ian Fawbert
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 3598
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 2:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia.
Contact:

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by Ian Fawbert » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:09 pm

I wonder what link there is between the manufacture of these carbs and the rebuild of Australian/commonwealth jeeps in Japan (which did happen) during the occupation of Japan post war.

Interesting these show up in Australia and NZ (... but there are so many aussie jeeps in NZ its possible it came from Australia!!! :D ), both who participated post war in Japan- Australia definitely part of the British Commonwealth Occupation Force (BCOF).

I`ve a NOS exhaust manifold manufactured in post war Japan, (ex Marathon Spares stock)- it is slightly lighter/smaller/not as bulky as the ww2 manufactured part. Its a shame Max has passed away as he would have likely had a great idea on these carbs, perhaps asking Neil might yield an answer? Vic- might be worth a call and ask?

I havent seen one in my travels, but will ask about too (I must have missed this post on 2004!) and see what I can find out from some other long time jeepers.

Cheers,
Ian.
Australian Jeep Investigator
MB: 131175
GPW: 11730.
GPW: 225290.
Aust trailer: GMH 3- #211
http://www.vintageengines.net

User avatar
artificer
banned
Posts: 13558
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:46 am
Location: SINGAPORE

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by artificer » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:15 pm

A few WW2 Jeeps around in OZ with aluminium bodied Japanese distributors also.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:50 am

Not sure about the numbers of Aussie/Kiwi forces in Korea during the KW War but much of what was refurbished in Japan was available to not only US forces but allies as well. Might there be some info in the AWM about this perhaps?

The rebuilding programs were not just something to jumpstart the Japanese economy, that wasn't enough to rebuild the countries economy by itself, but again, I point out the huge numbers of jeeps, trailers. trucks, etc. on the beaches of Okinawa that were rounded up across the Pacific in a photo dated 1949. That would more than outfit all the American forces in Japan with new/rebuilt equipment and some was provided to the Japanese Self-Defense Forces so I would imagine that anyone who would come to Korea with the US during that war would have vehicles supplied to them.

We see similar programs at Esslingen even while the fields of England and France at the end of the war there still held thousands of vehicles ever even issued. The US gave them away all across Europe to help shattered economies get going as per the UNNRA program I believe it was called.

The question left unanswered is: Did Aisan mfger a complete "Carter" of any specific type or did they just produce needed components not available from left over NOS depot supplies of individual parts?

So...has anyone got a Carter with an Aisan bowl cover that they can check the other components for markings that would indicate they were from Carter in St. Louis rather than a component from Aisan..??
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

Vic ALLAN
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:17 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by Vic ALLAN » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:07 am

Hi again .....There are no other markings on the bowl.....

Yes Ian ,I will ask Neil when I next speak to him ..

Cheers
Vic
1944 mb Eng MB301090 Old Girl
1942 mb 110674 Bruce
1942 mb 131196 WA
GPW 259102 Old Yella
GPW 50962 Henry

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: Carter WO made in Japan

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:25 am

That makes THREE different bowls I am aware of with no patents on them.
1) This blank one which would seem to be an Aisan mfger.
2) The French Zenith one with the round indentation on the bottom of the bowl (with no other markings on it?)
3) The unknown one with the markings on the rear as I posted above.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947


Post Reply

Return to “MB GPW Technical Knowledge Base”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 42GPW, loose nut dan, MB210581, Vic ALLAN and 89 guests