Champion 6 cyl timing set up issues

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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snow1156
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Champion 6 cyl timing set up issues

Post by snow1156 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:52 am

Hiya folks.

Anyone able to assist in checking the timing set up on a Studabaker Champion 6 cylinder engine please? I've been through the whole process however, the main issue I have is that once I've got No. 1 Cyl at top dead centre/firing position, checked the point's gap and checked the fly wheel timing marks are all correct, the engine starts and runs very lumpy. The only way it runs better is by turning the distributor coutner clockwise quite a way so that the timing marks can no longer been seen on the fly wheel with a timing light. Something is definately not right. Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated. Many thanks. :)


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Re: Champion 6 cyl timing set up issues

Post by snow1156 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:55 am

Thank you, Luc.

I think you could be right. Something what refitted incorrectly. I'll check this and see what happens.

Kind regards.

J.

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Re: Champion 6 cyl timing set up issues

Post by artificer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:47 am

Suggest that there will be a Studebaker Owners Forum. One might get better, succinct, qualified information on timing the 170? Studebaker Champion engine than asking on a WW2 Jeep forum.

As with the Jeep L134 or F134 engine/s, same with Studebaker & nearly anything else one can:

Assuming the engine is in good shape other than ignition timing....gauge will tell you if not in good shape as well....set the point gap or dwell first 35-38* http://www.tpocr.com/studebaker.html then

If the intake manifold has a removable plug anywhere under the carburettor level, plug in a vacuum gauge.

With the engine idling, or a little above, turn the distributor [advance, points opening earlier] until the best vacuum gauge reading is obtained.
Next turn the distributor back 1/8 -1/4" @ the outside of the housing.
Vacuum reading will be about 1" of mercury less that the previously best reading.

A road test, pushing the accelerator to raise engine speed shouldn't indicate pinging [a sound like marbles being shaken in a can].
If present, turn back [retard, points opening later] the distributor a little more until the on power condition doesn't reveal pinging.

Done properly the result will be close to perfect & better than using a timing light.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Champion 6 cyl timing set up issues

Post by fiveftsix » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:24 pm

You`ve given very little information on this
ie have you just replaced an engine !!!
What is it in ??
reason I ask you quoting a Studebaker Champion engine
Now one vehicle in my stable is a Studebaker 1950 bullet nose starlite champion which also happens to be fitted with the 170 flat head six.
there`s also a 190 known as a commander six too
Which is very similar in looks
I`m not sure what your motor is sitting in but on mine the timing is marked on the front pulley and not on the flywheel !!!!!
Geoff Bull

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Re: Champion 6 cyl timing set up issues

Post by snow1156 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:12 am

Thank you for all the advice, very useful. There is an M29 Weasel forum however, they've been having server issues for over a year now, so mostly it's been abandoned. The engine was fully overhauled and rebuilt by someone else. It is a Studebaker Champion 6-170 L-Head 6 cyl. 1945 I believe. I've followed all the advice and still it doesn't want to play :( Just revisiting the books and starting from cratch. I am suspecting now that the whoever set the timing up, aligned the marks on the fly wheel to the INT/OP markings, rather than the 1-6 UDC marking as per the TM. Anyway, gonna give it another go, then if no joy, gonna have to call someone in. Thanks again folks.

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Re: Champion 6 cyl timing set up issues

Post by W. Winget » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:32 am

I gotta ask, did you recheck the sparkplug wiring to distributor to ensure two or more are not in the wrong hole....And before this, pop the cap off, have someone crank the engine slightly so you can see which direction the rotor is turning so you can get them in the same firing order as the engine at the cap, not backward...
Sounds stupidly simple, but it happens and it can run somewhat.
V/R W Winget
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Re: Champion 6 cyl timing set up issues

Post by snow1156 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:24 pm

Good point, and I have double checked. All is ok. I'm thinking the timing wheel/gear was fitted incorrectly.

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Re: Champion 6 cyl timing set up issues

Post by artificer » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:44 pm

What did the vacuum gauge tell you?
What you surmise to be the problem is as rare as rocking horse doo doo & should be confirmed/eliminated before pulling stuff apart.
@ Cylinder 1 TDC compression the valves for Cylinder 1 should be rocking @ correct clearances.
@ Cylinder 1 TDC not compression the valves for Cylinder 6 should be rocking @ correct clearances.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.


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