Body restoration

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
Schelvis
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:19 pm
Location: Belgium

Body restoration

Post by Schelvis » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:40 am

For all you jeep body specialist out there: what is your opinion about the feasibility of restoring this piece of Swiss Cheese that once was a '42 GPW?

- Rear panel has been cut to make some sort of tail gate.
- Remaining parts of the rear panel/corners are replaced by galvanized steel.
- Hat channels are gone.
- Lower part of the driver's side panel is replaced by galvanized steel plating and filler.
- Floor of driver and passenger side is gone.
- Rust and holes in the corners of both left and right tool boxes.
- Inner windshield is beyond repair (it crumbles when you touch it).
- Extra hole in the dashboard. Worn out hole of one of the dashboard lights. Small hole on top of the dashboard.
- 1000's of little (+/- 10mm) holes everywhere. If I did not know better, I would think someone machine gunned this jeep. :)
- Fuel tank sump has become a rusty crumble.
- Body supports on the outside have cuts in them.
- Body support on the inside, driver's side has cuts.
- ...

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by Schelvis on Wed May 09, 2018 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Mark Jesic
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2473
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:56 am
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by Mark Jesic » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:07 am

This can be restored, i have seen a lot worse, and they were saved.

pittsjock
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:35 pm
Location:

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by pittsjock » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:50 am

I agree with Mark. That is a big project, but you can fix it if you decide to.

Regards, Patrick
Patrick
1943 Willys MB
1969 M274A2 Mule
Peoples Republic of New Jersey
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/PortrayalPress

User avatar
W. Winget
LTC, U.S. Army
LTC, U.S. Army
Posts: 4445
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:37 am
Location: USA, Virginia, Carrollton
Contact:

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by W. Winget » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:20 am

It all depends on what you desire. A repop body for under 3K is out there...is your time (for this project) worth 3K (plus) in restoring this body, or do you want to get on with it and offer the body up to someone that will look at it like eating an Elephant, one bite at a time...It will take time to 'restore' that body, if you have time and money, buy a repop body, finish off the jeep, then restore the original body and swap the parts over, selling the repop. If not, then make the choice your comfortable with.
I had the opportunity to judge the Nationals when they were back at Fort Lee, Va. as they needed a hand. I took the checklist and went down each jeep. There were some that were not really "restored" and had patches but were excellent Motorpool jeeps with armament and such, then there were meticulously restored originals, with some flaws and some jeeps with repop bodies that were flawless. as there was no guidance in the judging standards (of the time) for repop VS original bodies, I had to really try to figure a way to judge the owner that spent hundreds of hours in the project and maybe missed a few details VS the flawless purchaser of a repop that had likely had some auto shop assemble their toy so they could then show it off. Nothing in the points spread there, how would YOU judge it?
In the end I asked several owners if they felt they should relist in another class like motorpool VS factory and this eased some of the pain, but with zero points ruled out for original VS repop at the time, someone with money could walk away with the top prize even though there were obvious extreme restorations having been done right next to theirs.
Bottom line: Do what you can to meet your expectations to enjoy your jeep, and offer up what you don't need for your project to someone that wants that nth detail.
V/R W. Winget
Looking for 1918 Standard B 'Liberty' truck parts

User avatar
Farrell Fox
banned
Posts: 4847
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:17 pm
Location:

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by Farrell Fox » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:19 am

[Post Deleted By Author]
Last edited by Farrell Fox on Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
4th Tank Battalion, 4th Marine Division
M1A1 Main Battle Tank Mechanic
M88 Armored Vehicle Recovery Operator
AVLB Operator

User avatar
1943Willysgpw
G-Major General
G-Major General
Posts: 2740
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:02 am
Location: Edmond, OK

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by 1943Willysgpw » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:35 am

Farrell Fox wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:19 am
Better than what I started with.

I have to agree with Farrell. You are starting with much better material than the majority of us.
"None of us are as smart as all of us"

1942 GPW 1871 DoD 2-27-42 Dallas Plant
1945 GPW 247890 DoD 1-26-45 Louisville Plant
1942 GTB 136166 DoD 9-18-42
1942 GTB 135938 DoD
1952 M100

User avatar
dpcd67
G-General
G-General
Posts: 11808
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:41 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by dpcd67 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:10 am

Yes, I have restored worse; but, I have also seen guys literally replace every panel and floor with new pieces and end up with an original firewall; and call that "original body". In that case I would just get the repro and go with that, which I have done too.
In your case yours can be fixed with a work, but that is what restorations are, work. Not like the "restorations" of earlier days when they were just basically repaint jobs with a few parts changed; but those complete original jeeps are gone. It ain't 1960 any more.
Yours, I would fix.
U. S. Army 28 years.
Armor Branch

User avatar
dpcd67
G-General
G-General
Posts: 11808
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:41 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by dpcd67 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:15 am

Oh, should a repro body be judged differently than a restored original? No. Why? Because the category is for a factory original "Appearing" jeep. Not a factory "all parts original" jeep; which is impossible. If we want that, then the judging rules will need to be changed and that opens up a whole can of other worms. Percentage of reproduction parts would be hard to judge. And yes, anyone with money can just buy into a perfect jeep; that has always been the case and always will be in any collecting field.
U. S. Army 28 years.
Armor Branch

User avatar
W. Winget
LTC, U.S. Army
LTC, U.S. Army
Posts: 4445
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:37 am
Location: USA, Virginia, Carrollton
Contact:

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by W. Winget » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:43 am

Not to drag it too far off topic, but it ends up a REPOP body will never meet factory class if they don't get the seams (up on the front top cowl extensions) and floor depression groove correct (bottom of passenger foot well), which at that time were not addressed by the repop manufacturer(s). So judging those deducted a few points which basically leveled the field a little more when placed beside one that was all original in body yet had repairs well done.
V/R W Winget
Bottom Line Owner makes the call regarding what they want to spend their time (or money or both) on. WAW
Looking for 1918 Standard B 'Liberty' truck parts

conrod6
G-Captain
G-Captain
Posts: 749
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:30 pm
Location: teignmouth Devon UK

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by conrod6 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:38 am

Looks better than mine!

Barrie
GPW 101005 DOD 3-2-43 20207773 (actual) Louisville

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:11 am

Read winget's post very carefully. I agree with him.
IF...you want a "Factory Class" restoration using this tub, it will be possible but will take not only time and maybe half the money or more of what a repop tub would cost, but also the tools and an original tub to copy to get all the features of an unmolested tub to complete.

If on the other hand you are not submitting it for judging, using the repop may be a faster and cost-comparative route. As stated, setting this one aside if you choose to take the long restoration process on while you faithfully restore this one might be a very good option to get you months closer to getting on the road....or up to a year perhaps if you can only work on it on the weekends or are subject to weather issues.

Again, using the repop tub will take some fitting, they always do...but we're talking less than 1% of the time to bring that old tub back. When...and if you do....use the repop you can begin to enjoy your jeep before next winter and then when you have finished your original tub you cam probably sell that repop for 90% or so of what you have into it.

Up to you...but that's the route I would take if getting on the road was important.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

Schelvis
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:19 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by Schelvis » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:20 am

W. Winget wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:43 am
Not to drag it too far off topic, but it ends up a REPOP body will never meet factory class if they don't get the seams (up on the front top cowl extensions) and floor depression groove correct (bottom of passenger foot well), which at that time were not addressed by the repop manufacturer(s).
Any pictures of these seams?

Are there drawings available with all holes and/or all the bits and pieces of the different body panels?
Just to know if something can remain or need to be patched?

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:45 pm

Try jeepdraw....it has the hole locations/measurements.

A friend's jeep we are working on needed the following:
Rear panel
Curved rear panel-to-side panel top bend both sides
Tool box sections
Complete rear floor
Sections of front floor
Side risers replaced both sides
Steps
The usual 100 plus holes welded up
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

ritterdl1945
G-Sergeant Major
G-Sergeant Major
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:19 am
Location:

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by ritterdl1945 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:24 pm

Go for it! I wish my first Willy’s would have looked that good.
Dave
Willys MB
MB1286xx
DoD Mar 17, 1942
Restoration 100%

Willys MB
MB4080xx
DoD Jan 18, 1945
Restoration 100%

User avatar
W. Winget
LTC, U.S. Army
LTC, U.S. Army
Posts: 4445
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:37 am
Location: USA, Virginia, Carrollton
Contact:

Re: Body beyond repair?

Post by W. Winget » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:09 am

Schelvis wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:20 am
W. Winget wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:43 am
Not to drag it too far off topic, but it ends up a REPOP body will never meet factory class if they don't get the seams (up on the front top cowl extensions) and floor depression groove correct (bottom of passenger foot well), which at that time were not addressed by the repop manufacturer(s).
Any pictures of these seams?

Are there drawings available with all holes and/or all the bits and pieces of the different body panels?
Just to know if something can remain or need to be patched?
I don't have a photo database of the repop VS original available, Jeep Draw may have some info. But to describe it, there are spot welds on the right front section of the cowling near an indentation on the original body cowl right after the section where the hood and fenders meet (The outer body to firewall metal here) the original has the notched piece (all this is from memory...) the repop did not have this notched section incorporated, it was likely an alignment notch for the assembly plant for welding components together in the production line jig, something a re-manufacturer would not need in a limited production line.
The original passenger floorboard has a angled indentation about 1" wide with rounded ends about 7" long (from memory) in the passenger floorboard under your left shoe. Goes from rear transmission direction toward front right tires direction.
I'm sure of two things, there are more differences someone with a repop can describe; second, some of these may have even been addressed by the body manufacturers in the past 20 some years.
I have no issue with someone buying a repop body, it's just in relation to the time and effort of the restoration when it comes to 'show judgement' time in a competition that I brought it up. Whole debate on what is an 'original' (anything from toaster to vehicle) once a single or multiple parts are swapped out is another issue.
V/R W Winget
Looking for 1918 Standard B 'Liberty' truck parts


Post Reply

Return to “MB GPW Technical Knowledge Base”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], maurywhurt, outlaw21, Paul FitzGerald, shawnhoag and 82 guests