MB Clutch Issues

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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twinflyer17
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MB Clutch Issues

Post by twinflyer17 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:49 pm

Hi All,

A friend of mine is having some clutch issues. I've uploaded a video to YouTube (link below) which shows the clutch through the bell housing inspection window. What's happening is that the clutch plate stops spinning when the pedal is depressed, but when the gas pedal is pressed at the same time, the clutch plate begins to spin again. Basically, it's causing issues where he's unable to shift into 1st or reverse because of this. I took a look and made some adjustments to the pedal cable, but was unable to fix the issue.

https://youtu.be/qug3PDaUYOg

Any thoughts as to what the problem might be and what the fix might be?

Thanks.
Sean

GPW 108175 viewtopic.php?t=267732
DOD 4/14/43 Louisville, KY USA20371070

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dinof
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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by dinof » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:53 pm

The fact that the clutch disengages at idle but spins the disc upon hitting the gas would likely be a worn and / spinning pilot bushing inside of the flywheel. The throw out bearing might be also worn, but has nothing to do with the plate spinning or standing still. That noise is definitely not normal.

Question: Do you know how to properly adjust the clutch? This is important.
Dino Falabrino
On the "G" since 1998.
1943 GPW 102310 DOD 3-3-43
1928 Model A Roadster Pickup
1930 Model A Tudor
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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by twinflyer17 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:37 am

dinof wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:53 pm
The fact that the clutch disengages at idle but spins the disc upon hitting the gas would likely be a worn and / spinning pilot bushing inside of the flywheel. The throw out bearing might be also worn, but has nothing to do with the plate spinning or standing still. That noise is definitely not normal.

Question: Do you know how to properly adjust the clutch? This is important.
Thanks, Dino. Yes, I know how to properly adjust the clutch. This MB has quite a few hundred miles on it since the clutch was replaced, as a part of an engine swap in the spring time. The clutch was installed and adjusted to manual spec. I'm afraid you're right and it might be related to the pilot bushing...
bantamj wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:17 pm
That clutch doesn't come to a full stop.
The little drag it has is enough to make it spin fast under RPM.
When the gearbox heat's up and the oil get thinner the issue will increase as the gearbox will create less drag.
To my opinion the clutch damper system is at fault, most likely the damper springs are loose in the disk.
Thanks, bantam. I just did a transmission/xfer case oil change a few weeks ago. The T-84 is a 'H' case, so following manual spec, it was filled with the correct amount of GL-1 gear fluid. If my memory is correct, it was 1qt. Could there potentially be too little gear oil in the transmission that is causing this to happen? Prior to the fluid change he didn't have any issues with it...I'm still afraid it's the pilot bushing, as Dino pointed out, but I'd love to hear it's a simple fluid issue...
Sean

GPW 108175 viewtopic.php?t=267732
DOD 4/14/43 Louisville, KY USA20371070

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dinof
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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by dinof » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:08 am

Bantamj- Is there a bearing part number for that item? I'm sick and tired of the bronze spigot bearing.
Dino Falabrino
On the "G" since 1998.
1943 GPW 102310 DOD 3-3-43
1928 Model A Roadster Pickup
1930 Model A Tudor
1968 Taco Minibike

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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by twinflyer17 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:09 am

Fair points. Thanks, bantam. I'm afraid it's the bushing, too...will try to determine the best approach and will get back to the group with the potential outcome.
Sean

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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by twinflyer17 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:09 am

dinof wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:08 am
Bantamj- Is there a bearing part number for that item? I'm sick and tired of the bronze spigot bearing.
And ditto. I'd love to know the part number for this as well.
Sean

GPW 108175 viewtopic.php?t=267732
DOD 4/14/43 Louisville, KY USA20371070

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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by twinflyer17 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:22 am

This is fantastic. Thanks so much for the feedback and details on this bearing!
Sean

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dinof
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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by dinof » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:43 am

Now all we need is for someone like Ron to start stocking this. :D
Dino Falabrino
On the "G" since 1998.
1943 GPW 102310 DOD 3-3-43
1928 Model A Roadster Pickup
1930 Model A Tudor
1968 Taco Minibike

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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by dinof » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:44 am

This is a great solution to those that want their transmissions to last as long as possible. It also can breath new life into flywheels that were discarded because the bushing hole was to big from wear/abuse.

Thanks Bantamj for this great info!
Dino Falabrino
On the "G" since 1998.
1943 GPW 102310 DOD 3-3-43
1928 Model A Roadster Pickup
1930 Model A Tudor
1968 Taco Minibike

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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by artificer » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:11 am

When was the clutch driven disc replaced?
The problem as described may be associated with clutch disc in back to front, loose clutch facing's or loose damper springs & of course mal adjustment.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by fernando mendes » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:17 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqF-aBtTBnY

Mine is with rattling when I press the pedal.Mine is not original(Borg&Beck)
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623

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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by twinflyer17 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:54 am

artificer wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:11 am
When was the clutch driven disc replaced?
The problem as described may be associated with clutch disc in back to front, loose clutch facing's or loose damper springs & of course mal adjustment.
Clutch was replaced in early May. Maybe has 500 miles on it since then? I'm beginning to think we'll be pulling the tranny out to inspect and make any necessary changes....
Sean

GPW 108175 viewtopic.php?t=267732
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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by fernando mendes » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:59 am

fernando mendes wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:17 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqF-aBtTBnY

Mine is with rattling when I press the pedal.Mine is not original(Borg&Beck)
How to identify when it is SLIPPING or GRABBING or DRAGGING or RATTLING?(page 41 TM10-1513) :?
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623

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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by twinflyer17 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:45 am

Yep, had the manual out and still not sure the exact cause...
Sean

GPW 108175 viewtopic.php?t=267732
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fernando mendes
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Re: MB Clutch Issues

Post by fernando mendes » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:34 am

"Could there potentially be too little gear oil in the transmission that is causing this to happen? Prior to the fluid change he didn't have any issues with it..."
Can be too.
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623


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