1942 GPW Starter Issue
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1942 GPW Starter Issue
I am in the middle of restoring an April 1942 Ford GPW. I have the usual slow cranking expected from an original 6 volt system but recently it only cranks about a half a stroke of the engine and the front plate on the starter (the end closest to the front of the engine block) gets hot after 3-4 cranking attempts. Hot enough that you can hardly touch it. The engine is recently rebuilt but I had it running a few weeks ago and put 3-4 miles on in a road test. The battery is new and the volt meter on the battery charger shows 100% charged.
Thank you
John
Thank you
John
John Schroeder
1942 Ford GPW
1944 VW Type 82 Kubelwagen
1944 Cushman Type 53 Airborne Scooter
1944 John Wood M3A4 Hand Cart
1945 Ben Hur Water Trailer
1942 Ford GPW
1944 VW Type 82 Kubelwagen
1944 Cushman Type 53 Airborne Scooter
1944 John Wood M3A4 Hand Cart
1945 Ben Hur Water Trailer
- dpcd67
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Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
It shouldn't be that slow; check your timing. Advanced timing will cause that. As will poor grounds, low batteries, bad starter, and holding your mouth wrong. Six volt systems have to be perfect to work well, whereas 12 volts gives a lot of room for error.
U. S. Army 28 years.
Armor Branch
Armor Branch
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Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
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Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
That little angled support bracket on the commutator end of the starter is a major earth connection - so make sure it is scraped clean and is tight - no paint under the connecting surfaces.
Barrie
Barrie
GPW 101005 DOD 3-2-43 20207773 (actual) Louisville
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Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
All, what would cause the commutator end of the starter to be extremely hot after just a few attempted cranks on the starting motor?
Thank you
John
Thank you
John
John Schroeder
1942 Ford GPW
1944 VW Type 82 Kubelwagen
1944 Cushman Type 53 Airborne Scooter
1944 John Wood M3A4 Hand Cart
1945 Ben Hur Water Trailer
1942 Ford GPW
1944 VW Type 82 Kubelwagen
1944 Cushman Type 53 Airborne Scooter
1944 John Wood M3A4 Hand Cart
1945 Ben Hur Water Trailer
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Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
Its caused by a heavy current being drawn by the starter from the battery - any real hotspots will be caused by a poor connection as indicated in the responses above.
Barrie
Barrie
GPW 101005 DOD 3-2-43 20207773 (actual) Louisville
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Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
So it is normal for the front end of the starter to be very hot during operations?
Thanks
John
Thanks
John
John Schroeder
1942 Ford GPW
1944 VW Type 82 Kubelwagen
1944 Cushman Type 53 Airborne Scooter
1944 John Wood M3A4 Hand Cart
1945 Ben Hur Water Trailer
1942 Ford GPW
1944 VW Type 82 Kubelwagen
1944 Cushman Type 53 Airborne Scooter
1944 John Wood M3A4 Hand Cart
1945 Ben Hur Water Trailer
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Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
Hello John the motor will warm up with use - the longer it runs the warmer it will get. If you cannot touch the commutator end cap after a short time struggling to start the engine I would take the unit off and take a look inside. Two of the brushes are connected straight to the end cap and earth the motor through the small support bracket to the engine block .The other two brushes are connected to the cable terminal via the field windings. This particular motor type does not have its primary earth through the casing at the bell housing .
Barrie
Barrie
GPW 101005 DOD 3-2-43 20207773 (actual) Louisville
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
Just to add to this....you DO have the ground cable that attaches to the "L" bracket that is bolted to the block that holds the commutator head flange, right? Clean off the paint where the strap is attached, use the grease as noted above and toothed washers as per the manual and check all the fittings on the ground cable back to the frame. Then check the battery ground cable-to-frame (or battery tray) for clean, tight, paint free fitting.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
OK....
Most starter issues as you have indicated relate to a dirty commutator most commonly caused by over lubing or poor brush contract.
A good cleanup ensuring all parts are fitted to the armature shaft is essential before re-assembly.
Do not undercut the armature & if this has been incorrectly done previously ensure the commutator groove areas have all brush residue removed. JG
Most starter issues as you have indicated relate to a dirty commutator most commonly caused by over lubing or poor brush contract.
A good cleanup ensuring all parts are fitted to the armature shaft is essential before re-assembly.
Do not undercut the armature & if this has been incorrectly done previously ensure the commutator groove areas have all brush residue removed. JG
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
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- G-First Sergeant
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- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 4:54 am
- Location: Delafield, Wisconsin
Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
All, great advice. I cleaned up all the grounding areas suggested and replaced the end of the starter. It cranks over much quicker now and I was able to get it started today. All I have to do now is re-bleed the brakes and it should be road worthy. Stopping is as good as starting.
Thanks again for the advice
John
Thanks again for the advice
John
John Schroeder
1942 Ford GPW
1944 VW Type 82 Kubelwagen
1944 Cushman Type 53 Airborne Scooter
1944 John Wood M3A4 Hand Cart
1945 Ben Hur Water Trailer
1942 Ford GPW
1944 VW Type 82 Kubelwagen
1944 Cushman Type 53 Airborne Scooter
1944 John Wood M3A4 Hand Cart
1945 Ben Hur Water Trailer
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Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
For reasons given I don't recommend pump bleeding....http://jeepdraw.com/images/HOW%20to%20B ... LEEDER.pdf
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
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- G-First Sergeant
- Posts: 143
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 4:54 am
- Location: Delafield, Wisconsin
Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
For some reason vacuum bleeding is not working. I can maintain about 15 inches of mercury of vacuum at the bleeder screw but I am not drawing any fluid through the line. I am using a rebuilt master cylinder, all new wheel cylinders, and I blew out the lines before reassembly. Not sure, but I think I am getting vacuum created in the lines somewhere preventing the flow of fluid from the MC to the wheels.
John
John
John Schroeder
1942 Ford GPW
1944 VW Type 82 Kubelwagen
1944 Cushman Type 53 Airborne Scooter
1944 John Wood M3A4 Hand Cart
1945 Ben Hur Water Trailer
1942 Ford GPW
1944 VW Type 82 Kubelwagen
1944 Cushman Type 53 Airborne Scooter
1944 John Wood M3A4 Hand Cart
1945 Ben Hur Water Trailer
- artificer
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- Posts: 13558
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Re: 1942 GPW Starter Issue
Hard to pull a vacuum if air is leaking in around the bleeder's threads. A run of thick paint around the external area to stop an air leak when the bleeder is loose. The little mytvac units don't cope well. All new & you can use pump method but make sure the pedal does not go right to the floor....use a block of wood to stop full pedal travel.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
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