No exhaust valves in my engine
- jeepfinger
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
Hi Mr ''Dike Man'',
Not knowing too much about anything really even less about engines. I have a theory, could be wrong.
At sometime in the engine's life, it needed a valve job, the person doing this job could only get inlet valves, as at the time exhaust valves where not available. So, with that he went and cut the valve seat to suit Just my view on it, i'm prepared to be shot down in flames.
I wish you luck with your new Jeep
Regards,
Dave
Not knowing too much about anything really even less about engines. I have a theory, could be wrong.
At sometime in the engine's life, it needed a valve job, the person doing this job could only get inlet valves, as at the time exhaust valves where not available. So, with that he went and cut the valve seat to suit Just my view on it, i'm prepared to be shot down in flames.
I wish you luck with your new Jeep
Regards,
Dave
Dave Boocock
GPW 41158 June 19 1942
Bantam T3 9555 1/11/1943 USA 0258448
BSA WDM20 Sept 1940 C4343114
GPW 41158 June 19 1942
Bantam T3 9555 1/11/1943 USA 0258448
BSA WDM20 Sept 1940 C4343114
- tamnalan
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
I think the inlet valves are slightly larger diameter than the exhaust valves - using only inlet valves would reduce the cast iron "margin" between the intake and exhaust port seats. This might lead to cracking, especially for the #4 cylinder that runs a bit hotter.
On the other hand, it's a performance mod! The exhaust gases should flow a bit more easily.
If there's no cracks, then I would run it as-is.
I wonder if they used the correct guides? The intake guides should be shorter than the exhaust guides.
On the other hand, it's a performance mod! The exhaust gases should flow a bit more easily.
If there's no cracks, then I would run it as-is.
I wonder if they used the correct guides? The intake guides should be shorter than the exhaust guides.
Alan W. Johnson
_______________
MB, 201453, "Lt Bob"
MB, 1942, not stock
M-100, Sep 1951
MB-TD, Mar 2012
Ford 91C, 1939
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MB, 201453, "Lt Bob"
MB, 1942, not stock
M-100, Sep 1951
MB-TD, Mar 2012
Ford 91C, 1939
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
Sloman/Dikeman,
Your pictures pretty much told the story,and it seems now like your mechanic was merely trying to be cautious.Like the others have said,if it runs ok after the head gasket,off you go...
We each have different visions/philosophies about our jeep ownership.Not all owners service/work on their jeeps but on this site I'd say most do.Most even like to...besides,costs can be much lower for the service these old cars will need,at some point.
There is,however a learning curve,so your point is taken.
Most of us learned about your fascinating country in grade school.Good luck.
Your pictures pretty much told the story,and it seems now like your mechanic was merely trying to be cautious.Like the others have said,if it runs ok after the head gasket,off you go...
We each have different visions/philosophies about our jeep ownership.Not all owners service/work on their jeeps but on this site I'd say most do.Most even like to...besides,costs can be much lower for the service these old cars will need,at some point.
There is,however a learning curve,so your point is taken.
Most of us learned about your fascinating country in grade school.Good luck.
Ralph
- dpcd67
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
Ok, replacing the exhaust valves with intakes is a very bad thing; for one thing the valves seats have to be ground bigger, as already discussed above. The other is that exhaust valves are harder and made from a different material to resist heat; here is how to check. Take a magnet. It will not stick to an exhaust valve because they are not magnetic. Also, measure the diameters; from the picture it does look like they are all intakes, and they are marked 'in". which I have never seen before. Anyway, your dike plumber is right. But it is not good to have this situation. Those intake valves will burn out quickly used as exhausts.
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- Chuck Lutz
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
STOP!
We ae aware that you are not a mechanic but the pump repairman is not conversant In the operation of the L-134 either it seems.
The barrel on the front of the jeep is probably a surge tank:
..and if it is, then any overflow from the radiator should be coming from the surge tank overflow tube, not the radiator overflow tube as the radiator caps are different....
So...while modifying INTAKE valves to work as EXHAUST valves may be working now, it seems the guys have pointed out this is not a good long-term solution. If one fails and breaks it could REALLY damage the block and that would be VERY expensive to repair....therefore I too think it might be a very good idea to find a Dutch or Belgian or German shop that has worked on these engines and overhauled them.
You can gamble that you won't have a major failure or you can due the prudent thing and FIX this NOW...
We ae aware that you are not a mechanic but the pump repairman is not conversant In the operation of the L-134 either it seems.
The barrel on the front of the jeep is probably a surge tank:
..and if it is, then any overflow from the radiator should be coming from the surge tank overflow tube, not the radiator overflow tube as the radiator caps are different....
So...while modifying INTAKE valves to work as EXHAUST valves may be working now, it seems the guys have pointed out this is not a good long-term solution. If one fails and breaks it could REALLY damage the block and that would be VERY expensive to repair....therefore I too think it might be a very good idea to find a Dutch or Belgian or German shop that has worked on these engines and overhauled them.
You can gamble that you won't have a major failure or you can due the prudent thing and FIX this NOW...
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- dpcd67
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
Oh, when he said barrel, I was picturing a big German beer barrel duct taped to the the bumper by the dike plumber.
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- Chuck Lutz
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
At first I wondered about that myself...and it may be a big beer barrel, but I figured it might just be something "Lost In Translation" which does happen around here frequently.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
Chuck Lutz, you are right.
My jeep has an "expansion barrel" on the grill which is very similar as the parts in your picture.
Am been told that is to store coolant when the engine heat up and give it back to the radiator when it cools down.
He said that on my jeep that barrel warmed up from hot gasses going in from the engine and that it should never be warm.?
On this basis he has removed the "koppakking" from my engine and does the repair.
Hope all that make sense.
Thanks.
My jeep has an "expansion barrel" on the grill which is very similar as the parts in your picture.
Am been told that is to store coolant when the engine heat up and give it back to the radiator when it cools down.
He said that on my jeep that barrel warmed up from hot gasses going in from the engine and that it should never be warm.?
On this basis he has removed the "koppakking" from my engine and does the repair.
Hope all that make sense.
Thanks.
- tamnalan
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
Good one Chuck!
I suggest you keep that expansion tank on the jeep. It's a neat addition in my humble opinion and useful for warm weather use.
I suggest you keep that expansion tank on the jeep. It's a neat addition in my humble opinion and useful for warm weather use.
Alan W. Johnson
_______________
MB, 201453, "Lt Bob"
MB, 1942, not stock
M-100, Sep 1951
MB-TD, Mar 2012
Ford 91C, 1939
_______________
MB, 201453, "Lt Bob"
MB, 1942, not stock
M-100, Sep 1951
MB-TD, Mar 2012
Ford 91C, 1939
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
If all you plan to do is ride around the neighborhood occasionally, the intake valves may hold up for a while in the exhaust holes.
If you plan to do a lot of highway driving, I would replace the 4 intake valves with exhaust valves.
No better time than while the " koppakking " is removed. Spell check did not like that one .
I assume ( there is that word ), this is the cylinder head.
If you plan to do a lot of highway driving, I would replace the 4 intake valves with exhaust valves.
No better time than while the " koppakking " is removed. Spell check did not like that one .
I assume ( there is that word ), this is the cylinder head.
Mike Wolford
CJ-2A
VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 50 yrs)
EAA ( 49 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 5th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB
CJ-2A
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
"Pakning" is etymologically germanic for "gasket". So I think it's "head gasket."
Fun trivia: Head gasket is "toppakning" in Danish.
Fun trivia: Head gasket is "toppakning" in Danish.
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
Your mechanic is wrong....the level of coolant has some air above it which is heated as the engine heats up and expands into the surge tank. When the coolant expands enough it flows into the tank rather than being discharged into the sands of the Sahara where it isn't readily available. Upon cool down, the coolant flows back into the radiator and none is lost.
The 4lb cap goes on the surge tank and a sealed cap goes on the radiator.
Open the hood on your modern vehicle and read the manual about how the "overflow" tank your car has to understand this.
The 4lb cap goes on the surge tank and a sealed cap goes on the radiator.
Open the hood on your modern vehicle and read the manual about how the "overflow" tank your car has to understand this.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
That is precisely what the surge/expansion tank is for.Am been told that is to store coolant when the engine heat up and give it back to the radiator when it cools down.
The mechanic was correct if the language is interpreted/translated properly in that compression gasses were entering the cooling system because of a bad koppakking [Dutch = head gasket].
This leaking head gasket & compression pressures caused pumping up in the cooling system, exceeding the pressure cap's 4# rating.
This resulted in excessive coolant loss, totally negating the purpose & function of the surge/expansion tank & it's pressure cap
The mechanic said that on my jeep that barrel warmed up from hot gasses going in from the engine and that the surge tank should never be warm?
I'm sure he did not say this exactly, but what he did say has been incorrectly interpreted/translated/relayed. Of course this tank gets warm/hot when coolant is @ temperature & fills it in normal operation.
what Chuck says is correct provided he means a non pressure but a sealing cap [Fuel Tank Well Cap WO A 6942] flat to the top of the neck leaving the radiator overflow tube open to the surge tank.Chuck wrote:The 4lb cap goes on the surge tank and a sealed cap goes on the radiator.
When the coolant cools it vacates the surge tank so that the complete radiator upper tank is re-filled to the top.
Remember we are always talking about the radiator coolant finding it's own level just slightly above the core?
Well that expansion space is not in the top tank on this system but is now the surge tank so the radiator coolant capacity has been increased by a couple to a few litres.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
Ive been away from the scene for a while but on opening up this thread brought quite a smile to my face.
The occasional post thread that sprouts quite a bit of humor if unintentional first off !!!!!
of course the bickering of one up man ship still abates which is a pity.
But putting that all aside and reading Slomans original post together with some of the replies.
It was and still is common to mark valves IN and EX in Europe, Uk especially, maybe all us Brits are dumb!!! lol.
I doubt if an inlet valve was turned down as was one suggestion, if so then the IN stamp would have been much closer to the edge of the valve.
I`d be more inclined to opt that a previous owner was friendly with a local parts store and found valves from some other vehicle that matched the measurement specs of a jeep valve if not to exhaust valve hardness specs as dpcd47 noted.
It obviously worked as it ran and by the look of the internals for some time too.
I also get the impression from the original post of not wanting to get to deep in dept with this right now due to
inside forces !!!! lol
There appears to be more than one fix this resourceful previous owner tackled the addition of a surge tank !!!
He was a very how do I put it jeep entrepreneur, frugal too it seems owner !!!!!
perhaps an ex desert warrior from the past ????
Where make do had to do......
With all this in mind sloman will have to weigh up the costs of putting all this back correctly.
Or opt to just fix the head gasket problem for now until at a later date where money is a little more obtainable and the wife has at least been taken for a ride in it before getting into fixing the valve issue.
Geoff Bull
The occasional post thread that sprouts quite a bit of humor if unintentional first off !!!!!
of course the bickering of one up man ship still abates which is a pity.
But putting that all aside and reading Slomans original post together with some of the replies.
It was and still is common to mark valves IN and EX in Europe, Uk especially, maybe all us Brits are dumb!!! lol.
I doubt if an inlet valve was turned down as was one suggestion, if so then the IN stamp would have been much closer to the edge of the valve.
I`d be more inclined to opt that a previous owner was friendly with a local parts store and found valves from some other vehicle that matched the measurement specs of a jeep valve if not to exhaust valve hardness specs as dpcd47 noted.
It obviously worked as it ran and by the look of the internals for some time too.
I also get the impression from the original post of not wanting to get to deep in dept with this right now due to
inside forces !!!! lol
There appears to be more than one fix this resourceful previous owner tackled the addition of a surge tank !!!
He was a very how do I put it jeep entrepreneur, frugal too it seems owner !!!!!
perhaps an ex desert warrior from the past ????
Where make do had to do......
With all this in mind sloman will have to weigh up the costs of putting all this back correctly.
Or opt to just fix the head gasket problem for now until at a later date where money is a little more obtainable and the wife has at least been taken for a ride in it before getting into fixing the valve issue.
Geoff Bull
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Re: No exhaust valves in my engine
This reminds me to story I heard long time ago. Some car was bought, regularly driven home, but something was unusual. There was a feeling of lack of power and a bit strange sound of engine. After a while, guy went to garage and they find out that one piston with connecting rod is missing .
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