Correct Spark Plugs?

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:36 pm

Thank you Chuck....
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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by Donovan » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:09 pm

Everyone,
I have two boxes one is marked 17P 5365 with small boxes with the same numbering on the end of the small boxes. They contained F-40 Firestone spark plugs. The box was stamped on the inside flap Aug 9 1944.

The other box was marked 17P 5355 and small boxes marked the same. They also contained F-40s. No stamp was on the second box. So if they mis-labeled they mis-labeled the small boxes also.

One thing, in the spare parts for a GPA, I have only seen QM-2s. The boxes were plain white with no markings on the outside.

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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:30 pm

Surplus dealers all over bought crates of these Firestone F-40 Spark Plugs that were packed in correctly and incorrectly boxes. They were sold to their civilian customers as replacements for AC-45 and Champion J-8 with little if any attention paid to the army stock numbers.
One will note that the civilian postwar Champion and AC Sparkplug interchanges did not always agree with those in the Army parts manuals.
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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by lucakiki » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:56 am

Are we interested in knowing if Firestone Spark plugs were plentiful in post war years ( In a way they are not really scarce even to day!) or are we rather interested in knowing how they fit in this thread from a WWII correctness point of view?

Knowing how they were packed / labeled can shed more than just some light on Firestone plugs, but definitely I would leave Fiction out of the story.

The information posted by Tom should not be disregarded.
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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:40 am

Firestone F-40 Spark Plugs not only look period correct in your MB/GPW, they work just fine.
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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by mbwlc » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:39 am

Hi,

The factual "17-P-5365" (Firestone F40) spark plugs reference should not be disregarded either .... such as manuals, nos parts in boxes with part numbers and dates. This info is available to most of the G503 (MB GPW) collectors by doing a basic search.

"17-P-5365" (Firestone F40) spark plugs are listed as replacement parts or spare parts in WWII dated manuals (example: TM10-1186 Willys Master Parts List July 1, 1943; SNL G503 Catalog Jan 15, 1944; ORD7 SNL G503 Spare Parts Oct 11, 1944).

There is no doubt that "17-P-5365" (Firestone F40) spark plugs are WWII production spark plugs and were supplied to US army during WWII. Firestone F40 spark plugs in small individual boxes are marked with "17-P-5365", also master boxes of ten F40 are marked with "17-P-5365", and dated 1943, 1944, 1945. Military style packaging in plain cardboard boxes and wooden crates is another important reference point.

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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:08 am

wo2jeeper wrote:For the 17 p 5365 is that also a Polonium plug ? The civilian style is, but what about the military one ?
The GI packed F-40's were not marked "Polonium". The Polonium is Balonium as far as doing any good, it was a sales gimmick.
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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by lucakiki » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:09 am

mbwlc,no one ever doubted that Firestone plugs were WWII production.
As you say, the search feature is more than enough.

Firestone plugs may quite well work "just fine",but is it necessary to repeat the concept three times or more? :roll:

We could, if so wished, argue on the influence that the december 44 note posted by Tom W. might actually have had on the actual use of said plugs, and on the time frame of said influence.

Whatever the outcome of such a discussion, Firestone plugs are not correct, until proven otherwise, for a factory jeep nor for a factory spare parts bag.
Do you agree?
Luca

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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:45 am

Aside from the OFF TOPIC rantings, thanks to those who are contributing and to mbwlc for the info.
So...the Firestone F-40 is a valid replacement plug from 1943 onwards, with the actual introduction of it into the system as of now... not known.

It has not been (yet?) validated as being a FACTORY installed plug for GPW/MBs so it will remain a "motorpool" option which, if the Judges so rule, would be a BETTER choice than an Autolite 295 if the jeep is judged in Restored Class and certainly would get full points in Motorpool Class....(take that up with the Judging Comittee!).

With Tom W's post of the ORD Dept. conclusion that something was amiss with the Firestone F-40s in December 1944, I would imagine that that might have halted the gov't purchase of them as soon as that directive filtered down 'through channels' in the purchasing departments. However, I doubt that those maintenance departments in the ETO that had stocks of the F-40 and perhaps no other plugs in their inventory would just toss them in the dump...

In fact, it may have been discovered that SOME of the F-40 boxes did not contain F-40s and those were set aside by the maintenance outfits overseas and those boxes that DID contain an F-40 were in fact used in jeeps.

More on this would be undeerstood if the directive from ORD Dept. that Tom W. posted was investigated and the actual details of the problem were known. On the one hand, perhaps the F-40s themselves were junk....which Joel claims is not the case as he is using them in his jeep...or in case the only issue was that boxes labeled "17-P-5365" from Firestone did not in fact contain an F-40....but some other plug.

Thanks to Donovan and others who have mentioned that the GPA spares kit and a GPW kit that had a plain white cardboard box with a plug in it. I am not positive if anyone OPENED up the wrapping to confirm it or not, but it was stated that the box contained a "QM-2"....

With that in mind, if the Champion QM-2s found in spares kits and such were in plain boxes......we might then wonder if any were packaged in civilian style printed boxes....if any WERE found in the regular printed boxes in use in the civilian market at the beginning of the war then a case could be made that the "QM-2" was already in service and NOT....a plug Champion specifically marked to satisfy a drawing or a Quartermaster specification. I myself still think the QM-2 was created that way since the 1939 and 1940 Willys cars used a Champion J-8 and the Willys MA used the QM-2.
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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:26 am

Correction Chuck, surplus dealers sold GI issue F-40's for use in Jeep applications and whatever Civilian application the interchanges listed for years. I have done the same since the 50's.
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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by Mark Tombleson » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:44 am

A friend sent me a link for the J-9 on ebay. Thanks to Nikko! :D

Image
Image

The three on the right are J-9 the one on the left is an H-9.

The H-9 is not a jeep plug and I think the COM here means Commercial.

VINTAGE CHAMPION SPARK PLUGS J-9 14 MM 13/16" HEX. H-9 lot of four (4)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390684695955?ss ... 1438.l2649
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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:33 am

H-9 is longer reach, 7/16" v/s 3/8" for the J-9. Both types have 14mm threads.
FYI,
F-40, J-9, and AN-7 are all 14MM with 3/8" reach.
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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by JAB » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:24 pm

I should bid on those if for no other reason than that I have one J9 & if I won I'd have a set of rusty sparkplugs in civilian boxes.
-Jeff

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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:33 pm

As far as I know...the "single line" printing on the Champion J-9 plugs is a much later style and the "double line" printing like the plugs in the pic above have are period correct for WWII.

Now, does anyone know enough about the Champion Spark Plug story to tell us when the RED boxes were use and when the BLUE boxes as seen in the pic above were used? I'm thinking the RED boxes were later...and the BLUE were earlier? I don't know how that applies to WWII or even if Champion bothered to PRINT anything more than perhaps a "17-P-5365" on the box during WWII sales to the gov't.
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Re: Correct Spark Plugs?

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:51 pm

Note, there is an error in the ORD7 SNL G-503 dated October 1944. Group 06- ELECTRICAL refers to the Spark Plug as "PLUG, spark, 14mm, w/GASKET, assembly (CP-type-AN-7)" Note the Champion symbol (CP) and the Auto-Lite Part No. (AN-7). Even the Jeep gods screw up once in a while. Am sure the GI's involved with servicing the G-503 Jeep shrugged it off. However, the VEHICULAR SPARE PARTS SECTION of this same ORD7 lists "PLUG, spark, 14mm, w/GASKET, assembly (WO-A538) (Fed. Stock No. 17P-5365). This is the one spark plug that is issued as a spare that is stored on board the Jeep.
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