sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by PlowMB » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:17 am

As the subject line goes when was the swap over for the internal parking brake? My sept 44 mb had an internal on it when I got it but it also had the wrong tcase and trans also. So I can't go by that. (the crossmember had to be replaced when I swapped back)

the internal brake has never worked all that well, I have a new set of linings I can put on but if the external is correct I will start to look for the parts.
Thanks,
Glenn and the 44 MB 372406 "fighting Francis"
(for my dad RIP USMC korea Vet)

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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by AZ Jeff » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:20 am

September of '44 would have been factory internal brake. My Nabholtz (reference) is at the house but I believe the change was early June of '44 as I recall.

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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by Gustl » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:43 am

John Farley shows the change from external to internal in "The Standardised Wartime Jeep II", p.127 July 1944.
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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by PlowMB » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:11 am

Thanks guys that saves me some money then! Just have to pull it off and redo the shoes then. Thanks
Thanks,
Glenn and the 44 MB 372406 "fighting Francis"
(for my dad RIP USMC korea Vet)

Glenn Loud
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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by apeitsch » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:08 pm

Hoping someone is still following this post. I have a 42 GPW that came with no parking brake. We've disassembled the TCase for a rebuild. Lots of Ford marked bolts and the TCase is F marked. Attached is a picture of the TCase housing, retainer and yoke. I know that the correct e-brake should be "external" but I have a very nice "internal" e-brake (original) and I'm looking at the retaininer thinking I have a "internal" e-brake retainer. I'd appreciate some confirmation on my assessment. I've seen other posts that say the "internal" e-brake is better and quite frankly, I'm not doing this to show in a competition, but to use for historical displays, parades, educational events, etc. I have a feeling my "Baby" went through a few changes, as she also has a large mouth gas tank seat pan.

Anyway, if someone could confirm that I have the retainer for a "internal" type e-brake, I can get the linkage parts to hook it all back up.

Thanks in advance!

Andy
Rear Output from TCase prior to disassembly.jpg
TCase still on Baby
Rear Output from TCase prior to disassembly.jpg (200.26 KiB) Viewed 2740 times
Rear TCase Output Retainer and yoke.jpg
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Rear TCase Output Retainer and yoke.jpg (52.42 KiB) Viewed 2740 times
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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by lucakiki » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:02 am

Andy, for sure an internal expanding brake is not original to your 42 GPW and in my very limited knowledge I would say is not original to any GPW.

I think you can anyway assemble your GPW with the internal set-up,if you have enough parts to make it worth to look for the missing parts to complete it.
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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:30 am

The late Parking Brake appeared on MB after July 1944, there are many late July 44 MB's with the early parking brake. My DOD 31 July 44 Serial 356378 has the small brake. Nabholtz indicates that 1945 GPW Jeeps did have the large parking brake.
If you can find a CJ-2A thru CJ-5 Parking Brake Assembly to remove, you will have most of what you need. The GPW Skid Plate for the late brake has a unique shape at the rear for the drum.
Last edited by Joe Gopan on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by Gustl » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:41 am

Andy:
The retainer you are showing seems to be an internal.
Compare with my internal (WOF):
Image
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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by gearhead » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:41 am

I know of six '45 GPWs, all unrestored, that have the external brake.
I believe Tom W. can confirm all late GPWs came thus.

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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by apeitsch » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:09 pm

All,
Thanks, this is great info. I'd be curious on Tom W's response. I'm wondering if during the "reconditioning" process by Moore Equpiment Company of Modesto California, if they didn't install the internal, larger, e-brake on it and then the owner removed it so it wouldn't hang up on anything. I was told this jeep was used on a ranch in Colorado. I suppose anything is possible. I realize that this would not be "period correct" for my 42, but again, I'm not planning on entering in any contests at this point.

Andy
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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:40 am

For those of you lucky owners of "The Military Jeep" By Lawrence Nabholtz, the 1st Edition, Page 38, and Revised Edition Page 56 illustrate the late Parking Brake on a 1945 GPW. The Photo is from Lawrences 8X10 Archival Glossy WWII Collection that he used to sell copies of.
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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by Tom Wolboldt » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:12 am

Hi Andy and others,

Ford records do not indicate that the GPW ever had the internal parking brake arrangement. Plans were in place to use the internal setup but GPW production ended prior to using the new brake setup.

The photo cited ( same photo in both books ) in the Nabholtz books is a poor sample to cite how a GPW was equipped when it left the assembly plant. This GPW ( DoD 07-02-45 ) is well used and may even be pictured during the Korean era rather than during WW2. Mr. Nabholtz got a great many MB / GPW details correct but some he did not and this is one of them.

Edit - Changed the word external to internal. Sorry for the typo and thanks to Luca for pointing the mistake.
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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by lucakiki » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:15 pm

Tom wrote:Hi Andy and others,

Ford records do not indicate that the GPW ever had the external parking brake arrangement. Plans were in place to use the external setup but GPW production ended prior to using the new brake setup.

The photo cited ( same photo in both books ) in the Nabholtz books is a poor sample to cite how a GPW was equipped when it left the assembly plant. This GPW ( DoD 07-02-45 ) is well used and may even be pictured during the Korean era rather than during WW2. Mr. Nabholtz got a great many MB / GPW details correct but some he did not and this is one of them.
Hi Tom! Just to be sure of being on the same page, wouldn't be the later kind of parking brake which Ford did not use be called internal expanding, as opposed to the earlier kind usually referred to as external contracting?
If so, maybe you switched the two definitions?
Friendly regards,Luca.
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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by Mark Tombleson » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:16 pm

Let us be precise and say Ford never changed from the Hand Brake FM-GPW-2598, WO-A-1008 (External Contracting Type) to Hand Brake FM-GPW-2598-B, WO-A-9333 (internal expanding type).

I have the changeover at MB-373337 on 9-21-44 but some were installed earlier than this. I'm still looking at documentation. :)
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Re: sept 44 willys mb internal or external parking brake?

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:48 pm

Tom wrote:Hi Andy and others,

Ford records do not indicate that the GPW ever had the internal parking brake arrangement. Plans were in place to use the internal setup but GPW production ended prior to using the new brake setup.

The photo cited ( same photo in both books ) in the Nabholtz books is a poor sample to cite how a GPW was equipped when it left the assembly plant. This GPW ( DoD 07-02-45 ) is well used and may even be pictured during the Korean era rather than during WW2. Mr. Nabholtz got a great many MB / GPW details correct but some he did not and this is one of them.

Edit - Changed the word external to internal. Sorry for the typo and thanks to Luca for pointing the mistake.
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