Head gasket - which side up

[Joe Gopan]

Tell us about the Lemmings, John. Many of the ORD # marked head gaskets and those of the automotive aftermarket, are marked contrary to your suggestions. If you care to go one step farther, the Ordnance TM's for Jeep engines also contradict your methods.

[Tom Wolboldt]

Government surplus MB head gaskets stamped Victor 989-K have the crimped edges on the same side as is the stamped data.

As posted by Ben on page one.

If still in doubt put the printed side up.

Using Ben's method the solid side would be against the block as others have also suggected as being correct.

[Joe Gopan]

What is the Willys Part Number and ORD Part Number for Victor 989K, and I will research it. Which Engine is the gasket part number you posted listed for? NOTE: Although the Victor Part Number is not shown inthe TM-10 and SNL Parts Books, the Victor 989K is included in the A-1537 Valve Grind Kit as Willys Part No. 638678. This gasket was superceded by Willys A-8558, a much better gasket with continious fire dam.

[Tom Wolboldt]

The head gasket I quoted is included in Willys-Overland valve grind kit A-1537.

[Joe Gopan]

Tom, I have some of the Victor 989K Gaskets right in front of me, it is Willys 638678 and was furnished in that Kit. 638678 was an austerity Gasket designed to conserve metal, that particular Willys Number in Kit A-1537 would include Victor 989K or similar gasket bt "Detroit Gasket" bothe of these gaskets lacked the crimped "fire dam" that was normally a continuous crimped metal seal around the perimeter of each cylinder opening. The only metal included to seal the firing chamber was a 1-1/4" band placed between 1-2 and 3-4 Cylinder, it is a different design twhen compared to the conventional gaskets that would have been normally used. On this gasket, what little crimp there is, goes against the block, and the manufacturers "Trade Mark" faces the head in the conventional method. Parts books are nice, but they do not make the reader a "mechanic". I have both the Victor and Detroit brand "Austerity" gaskets in stock on my shelf. I do not install them as they are inferior due to lack of fire dam material.

What you could do, Tom, is research the FM-GPW equivalent of WO-638678 which is FM-GPW-6051 and tell us how the Ford Drawing indicates the installation. Am positive the Ford drawing has "NOTES".

[artificer]

Can you post a pic of both sides?

Instead of telling others what to do you should take some of your own advice instead of rambling on with unintelligible stuff.

Parts books are nice, but they do not make the reader a "mechanic".

The original poster asked "'Head Gasket - which side is up?" & this was been answered many posts ago.
He did not ask if he would become a mechanic by reading old Army parts books especially about old parts no longer available except in your snowed in shed.
Just because one has lots of Jeep books & has 20,000 plus posts doesn't make one a practicing, all round, experienced mechanic like Mike either, could be just as rightly said.

[Tom Wolboldt]

Hi Ben,

You wrote"

On this gasket, what little crimp there is, goes against the block, and the manufacturers "Trade Mark" faces the head in the conventional method.

The gasket I have ( and detailed correctly by yourself above ) in stock have the crimped side and the manufacturers name and part number all on the same side. Perhaps there is no relation between these two data points to say they are always on opposites side of a Victor head gasket.

[Joe Gopan]

These gaskets were the result of metal conservation. They did not survive as well as the WO-638540 which had the conventional metal dam surrounding each cylinder as installed postwar on the CJ. They were prone to seepage caused by corrosion that took place with permanent antifreeze that got stale from not being flushed after several years of use. My NOS GPW engine had one of these installed at the factory, I changed it due to signs of seepage.

[Tom Wolboldt]

I have opened a Ford GPW valve grind kit - part number GPW 18387. The head-gasket is made by Detroit Gasket & Mfg. Co. It is made just like the Victor Gasket that I posted about above. The short metal liners have the open crimps on the same side as the Detroit Gasket Co. and Script " F " stampings.

I have added head-gasket GPW-6051 / Willys 638678 to my list of part numbers to check on the next trip to the archives.

[Bill M]

GPW 6051-B head gasket with the steel flame ring now totally surrounding the combustion chamber. I have not seen the actual B rev gasket in NOS form only the earlier version with the small steel insert on the chamber edges. The 6051-B looks more like the Fel-Pro 7267 B that is currently offered in the marketplace.
Ford drawing Date 1 July 1943.

[Wolfman]

Update,
The M38-a1 I referred to earlier is still going.

[fiveftsix]

An interesting thread brought up here from quite a few years ago !!!
And just at a time I to am about to put a head back on a totally rebuilt and re-sleeved 42 GPW engine.
The head gasket provided in the Engine kit I received was identical to the original posters one.
No markings whatsoever.
Will I be using it ??? No way
It`ll be a wall hanger
Mike was perfectly correct in it`s orientation but even with that knowledge it`s going to hang on the wall.
Reason it`s inferior !!!!
Apart from the obvious of blow-by between cylinders there`s another error with that and any other gasket like it.
The one I have also over hangs one or two cylinders !!!!
Bill M posted a drawing of the Ford made gasket
Notice anything different about it from the OP`s one ?
is it not also a common problem of seepage from the side ??
There are 4 water slot passages on the manifold side of the block
Notice the OP`s gasket and the Ford drawing at those points !!
it would appear you`d need to warp the head to seal those slots successfully !!!
Me I`m opting for a copper head gasket !!
Sure it costs more but in the long run much cheaper than anything else.
I`m also replacing all the head bolts too
70 years of torquing up the same bolts ????
Torquing up and one shears ? no thanks
Ron has these gaskets, bolts too should you also opt for a better solution.
And they also have crimped seals around those slots too
Just make sure the slots in the block are not eaten away to bad as it may need decking !!!
Geoff Bull

[artificer]

Best solution to the head bolt issue is use studs as was done by Willys.
Bolts in & out wear the block & eventually it fails or the bolt does.
Studs don't come out, sealant when fitting finger tight plus a smidgen, so no thread is showing & when fitted this way are good for life.
After the head gasket is on smear unthreaded stud portions with kopr-kote & progressively tighten the head nuts in the correct sequence from the centre outwards.

[fiveftsix]

All good points John
However in the the case of GPW`s and originality buy new bolts
And coat the threads with a PTFE type liquid to help prevent water working up the threads
And the shanks as John has advised.
together with a good sealing gasket one should not need to keep replacing and re-torquing bolts or even nuts as on the willys
New nuts and studs all available should also be good practice to prevent early failure
Geoff Bull

[fiveftsix]

That`s quite a worrying comment you have made Luc.
Obviously you`ve been down this route yourself before !!!!
Perhaps you could enlighten me and any others interested in this thread as to your experiences with repro head bolts ???
The idea of replacing original ones with new would be good practice but only if the replacements are of good quality and graded 8.8.
But with no markings one can only assume that they are fit for the purpose intended !!!!!!!
Geoff Bull