Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
82ndrecontbp
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Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by 82ndrecontbp » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:45 pm

Finally getting around to some asthetics...

Removed the old grill welting and split rivets. Sanded and repainted the areas, have prepared new ground straps for installation there but...
I tried to put the first two-inch piece on, figuring i would start small. Those rivets are a hell of a lot harder to install than they were to remove!! Is there a trick to this? I'm sure im doing it wrong. I broke two already and the two that i got seated are not real snug or tight. Argh!

Thanks in advance.

Tom


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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:29 am

First off, the rivet heads are up, the tines are DOWN...

1) Use an ice-pick to puncture the strip of hood welting
2) Use set of pliers to force the rivet into the welting and through the grill
3) Use a knife/screwdriver/whatever...to separate the rivets and bend them DOWN (if you have small needlenose pliers, you can get the tine to bend back into a tight circle)
4) Use the pliers to set each of the tines on the rivet

On the grill, start in the MIDDLE and alternate one to the left, one to the eight, etc. to get it set without slop

Cut the "extra" once installed.

PS, use the ice-pick again to clean out the holes for the staples when you go to install the felt strips on the radiator.
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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by 82ndrecontbp » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:39 pm

Using a leather punch to place a small guide hole for the rivet.

I'm pretty much doing as you described but the tines on the rivets seem a bit brittle. I seat the rivet and use a small set of needlenose to bend back the tines. Two have broken this way. The metal on the ones i removed were much more pliable. Faulty supplies from one of Ron's competitors i wonder?

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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by mstokes » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:29 pm

Hi Tom
Try your local hardware store for some split rivets. Out here on the west coast we have a company called Orchard Supply Hardware and they carry copper split rivets. I think Ace Hardware or True Value may carry the steel ones in there little slid out trays. I like the copper ones just for the reason you are describing. They may not be correct not being steel but they bend easy and patina to a nice black color with in a year.

Matt Stokes
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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by 82ndrecontbp » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:11 am

Thanks Matt! I'll try that.

These steel ones are a real Bit@#!!!!

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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by John » Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:56 pm

Take a pair of vise grips and make up a small jig to bend the legs of the rivet. It will probably wreck the vise grips, but you can weld one jaw and grind it to make the jig. Make it so it spreads the rivet legs and bends them back upwards. I wish I'd kept mine when I made it, but I think I reground the weld off and saved the vise grips.

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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by Rml1708 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:27 pm

Tom,

Here is a little tool I made to set the split riviets

Image

Image

Image

I made this little tool from a scrap laying around and used a chain saw file to make the two slots. when in use to set the rivet I did it in two squeezes. First squeeze flared out the tangs and the second squeeze was a real tight squeeze to set the rivet tight. Worked real well.

Robert
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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by Alasdair Brass » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:48 pm

Robert's tool will set the rivets correctly. They should be rolled and not flattened, like being crushed by flat-nosed pliers will do. That is probably why they are breaking. Correct rivets are black finished.

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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by alecv » Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:50 pm

Robert,
Any chance you can post the dimensions of the tool you made?
Alec

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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by Wolfman » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:35 am

Ford Model T uses split rivets to hold the lining to the transmission bands.
Ford's T shop manual says to spread the split with a screwdriver thin use a small round rod, squeezed into the rivet split with pliers to finish spreading the two rivet tangs.
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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by tsornes » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:00 am

My jeep has tubular rivets like brake lining rivets. I guess they are from a previous rebuild? I have also seen this on another jeep.


Torfinn Sornes

PS Chainsaw file are 4 -5mm. I guess you could drill two holes in a piece of steel and then saw it in two.

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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by m38inmaine » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:44 am

I have the special tool to install them, if you would like to borrow it let me know.
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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by MB44 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:39 pm

hello,
can you please tell me the size of the drill bit you used when you made the tool? i have seen your photo many times, but i do not recall a spec for the drill size.
i went to osh to look for the rivets, but they did not have any, maybe not all osh stores carry them. i broke several myself when i was installing the welting.

thank you, alex
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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by artificer » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:57 pm

http://www.hansonrivet.com/w05a.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.hansonrivet.com/w82a.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or with an old set of pliers, by dremel slice 2 grooves along 1 plier jaw parallel with the edges of that jaw, leaving a 2mm space in the middle.
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Re: Grill Welting - trick to Split rivets?

Post by Rml1708 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:38 pm

The dimensions really are not that important. I just took a round file that is 3/16 or so and made the two rounds. You need to give the area in the middle to be sure to spread the rivets then do not make the rounds too deep or they will never curl the rivets tight against the welting.

Robert
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1952 M100
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