SNL G-231, T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
Moderator: Kevin Lockwood
- Gordon_M
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am
- Location: central and north east Scotland, depending on the day
Yet more T-36 small stuff
Fuel tank takeoff pipe with isolator. There's one tank in each track frame with conventional US big filler point. Takeoff point with isolator is at the lower inner corner of each tank, but only the tank in the right track frame has provision for a fuel guage sender.
Right hand cab door ( no point in using terms like ' passengers side ' as the T-36 drivers position is central ) Structurally fine, but a line of rot right across the sheetmetal joint with the lower frame section. There's a suggestion of similar damage on the angled section but it didn't look bad - at this point.
Cut out, ready for piecing in
Finshed edge, which will still need phosphating and undsersealing before being covered up for the next 68 years. Yes, I did have to rework the angled front section too, but only by cleaning and plating behind it so I could spot repair through.
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
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- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1961
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- Location: Ohio
Re: T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
keep up the good work!!!
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- G-First Lieutenant
- Posts: 633
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- Location: belgium
Re: T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
where are you going to find tracks?
nice work
nice work
m3a1scout car '43
wc-1dodge '41
willy'smb '43
willy's overland+converto trailer '42
cckw352 c/c wo/w ring mount civil dash '41
benhur with rubber landing wheel '41+'43+'44
cckw352 o/c w/w and gun mount '42
m10 ammo trailer '43
wc-63 with ring mount
wc-1dodge '41
willy'smb '43
willy's overland+converto trailer '42
cckw352 c/c wo/w ring mount civil dash '41
benhur with rubber landing wheel '41+'43+'44
cckw352 o/c w/w and gun mount '42
m10 ammo trailer '43
wc-63 with ring mount
- Gordon_M
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am
- Location: central and north east Scotland, depending on the day
Re: T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
Thanks all. Unlike virtually every other US military snow machine of the period, the tracks are just constructed from conveyor belt.
Two 27 foot lengths of 2 foot ( now 600mm ) wide black four or six ply belt with a joint, then vulcanised. Drive lugs are bolt through aluminium, grousers are bolt on aluminium, so although it will be time consuming and expensive, it is quite possible to do it with minimum facilities, unlike, say, a Weasel or M7 track.
Gordon
Two 27 foot lengths of 2 foot ( now 600mm ) wide black four or six ply belt with a joint, then vulcanised. Drive lugs are bolt through aluminium, grousers are bolt on aluminium, so although it will be time consuming and expensive, it is quite possible to do it with minimum facilities, unlike, say, a Weasel or M7 track.
Gordon
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
-
- G-First Lieutenant
- Posts: 633
- Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:08 am
- Location: belgium
Re: T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
did you start the full restoration allready ?
when do you think its ready
when do you think its ready
m3a1scout car '43
wc-1dodge '41
willy'smb '43
willy's overland+converto trailer '42
cckw352 c/c wo/w ring mount civil dash '41
benhur with rubber landing wheel '41+'43+'44
cckw352 o/c w/w and gun mount '42
m10 ammo trailer '43
wc-63 with ring mount
wc-1dodge '41
willy'smb '43
willy's overland+converto trailer '42
cckw352 c/c wo/w ring mount civil dash '41
benhur with rubber landing wheel '41+'43+'44
cckw352 o/c w/w and gun mount '42
m10 ammo trailer '43
wc-63 with ring mount
- Gordon_M
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am
- Location: central and north east Scotland, depending on the day
Re: T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
I'm just tinkering with it really, and buying spare parts that I know I'll need.
I will have to make a set of tracks and a dashboard for it, apart from that all the things it needs are really quite straightforward - just needs work and money.
I will have to make a set of tracks and a dashboard for it, apart from that all the things it needs are really quite straightforward - just needs work and money.
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
- Gordon_M
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am
- Location: central and north east Scotland, depending on the day
Re: T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor progress
I've spent a long time trying to salvage the original roof sheeting. New readers should know that it was 95% OK and absolutely original, but unfortunately it had eight or nine sections where the edge of the aluminium was attached to the roof side steelwork and it had rotted away.
In practice it proved impossible to effect even one decent repair, so after a wasted year I ripped it all off this weekend, but did salvage the separate corners as they were formed in a double curve.
The sheeting itself is nothing, just two sheets. The problem is it was originally attached with almost three hundred solid 1/4" steel rivets. I'm going to replace all the roof rivets with 1/4" aluminium pop rivets which wont be perfect but it will let me move on with it. If nothing else they will be easy enough to drill out and replace by subsequent, more particular owners.
Now I still have to grind off and knock out the remains of the originals which will keep me going for a while.
The rectangular section in the front of the roof was some sort of hatch originally but had a later plate rivetted over using factory rivetting - change during production maybe? The original roof sheets had white paint, then light and dark orange. The hatch cover plate just had the light and dark orange, and I know that the decision was taken to paint the cabs orange during production around the time it was decided they would not be going to combat zones.
Thanks to all board members for help with original documentation and parts during the year. I think the only significant replacement part I don't have my hands on is the speedo and Jaap has one for me if I ever get round to picking it up.
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
- Gordon_M
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am
- Location: central and north east Scotland, depending on the day
Re: T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
Time for a T-36 update. It is still in many, many pieces but making progress.
Drivers compartment blasted, primed, and repainted silver.
Basic spring and suspension layout.
Track adjuster as received.
Track adjuster off
Track adjuster blasted and primed
Track adjuster cleaned, re-tapped & refitted.
Track adjuster wrench, 2¼” hex drive, found this one on E-Bay, probably not original but works.
T-36 Tool Kit. Still need to add the Alemite Grease Gun which I have somewhere, plus grease gun extension, and the Kidde CO2 Extinguisher which is en route from the US – luckily the mounting bracket comes with it.
Drivers compartment blasted, primed, and repainted silver.
Basic spring and suspension layout.
Track adjuster as received.
Track adjuster off
Track adjuster blasted and primed
Track adjuster cleaned, re-tapped & refitted.
Track adjuster wrench, 2¼” hex drive, found this one on E-Bay, probably not original but works.
T-36 Tool Kit. Still need to add the Alemite Grease Gun which I have somewhere, plus grease gun extension, and the Kidde CO2 Extinguisher which is en route from the US – luckily the mounting bracket comes with it.
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
- Gordon_M
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am
- Location: central and north east Scotland, depending on the day
T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor update time
I'd already pulled two and cleaned the threads, but hadn't actually got the adjuster frames to move in their carriers. The threaded adjusters move a carrier mounted top and bottom on a rail, and within each carrier an axle end is mounted on two more rails, so basically four rails and one threaded adjuster to free off per assembly, two assemblies per track frame, and two track frames.
Started by pulling the locks that hold the threaded adjusters, then the adjusters themselves were pulled and cleaned with a tap, then those bits reassembled. On each assembly the running surfaces of the rails were needle-gunned, roasted with a gas torch, blasted with mineral grit, and soaked with penetrant. A few runs at that, a turn or two on the threaded adjuster and they all broke loose - fortunately none of the welds or threaded components went west.
I moved all four threaded adjusters forward till the male thread came right through, then backed them off to a level. Since each front roller is mounted in a frame the roller adjustment can be set quite easily by measuring the gap between the roller edge and the frame at the back.
For a little light relief I lifted the drivers compartment back on and started to refit the loose bits to that.
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
- Gordon_M
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am
- Location: central and north east Scotland, depending on the day
Drivers compartment goes back.
The top edge of this is where the main cab sits, but the whole thing can be operated with the cab lifted off and the driver sitting there in the cold. Driver's tail is about four inches above the winch drum top edge, but there is a 1/8" steel plate between in case of unfortunate events with the winch cable ...
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
- W. Winget
- LTC, U.S. Army
- Posts: 4448
- Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:37 am
- Location: USA, Virginia, Carrollton
- Contact:
Re: T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
Gordon: I'm jumping topic slightly, I tried a PM but it failed. Have you seen the South Pole expedition footage?
Part 1 of 5, parts 2-5 have the snowcat expedition footage alas no Fireman Snow tractor.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ-HmwXBF84
V/R Adrian Winget
Virginia
Part 1 of 5, parts 2-5 have the snowcat expedition footage alas no Fireman Snow tractor.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ-HmwXBF84
V/R Adrian Winget
Virginia
- Gordon_M
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am
- Location: central and north east Scotland, depending on the day
Re: T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
Yup, got the original films on CD
Four Sno-Cats, a few Weasels, and a Muskeg, from that side. The other ( Ross Sea ) party had Ferguson tractors, aWeasel, and I think a Bren carrier.
Four Sno-Cats, a few Weasels, and a Muskeg, from that side. The other ( Ross Sea ) party had Ferguson tractors, aWeasel, and I think a Bren carrier.
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
- Gordon_M
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am
- Location: central and north east Scotland, depending on the day
Moving on : T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
First order of business, do something about this winch cable ...
these bits ought to help. The cable clamp came from Ross Prince down under who has the 3/8" size on the shelf. Unusual really as I'd expect a mid '44 Braden MU winch to have the upgraded 7/16" cable diameter, but this cable is 3/8" Maybe they figured cable reach was more important than ultimate load;
That's better;
Now all I need to do is wait for the right snatch block which is en route from the US in a box.
What's next then? Maybe start to make up a copy of the original crank handle?
That's most of it. I need to find a cheap ordinary handle to cut up for the input section. I have the dimensions from the one T-36 owner that got an original crank with his. The finished item is 48" long.
There is the main section of the crank in place. The dropper under the front of the tow frame pivots down when you need to use the handle, and swings up onto the top of the tow bar where a jeep-type spring latch holds it when not needed. That's just the first attempt at the dropper section, needs a full rework. Fortunately one of the other owners still has the original dropper on his to use as a pattern
That's enough - I'm off for a rest
these bits ought to help. The cable clamp came from Ross Prince down under who has the 3/8" size on the shelf. Unusual really as I'd expect a mid '44 Braden MU winch to have the upgraded 7/16" cable diameter, but this cable is 3/8" Maybe they figured cable reach was more important than ultimate load;
That's better;
Now all I need to do is wait for the right snatch block which is en route from the US in a box.
What's next then? Maybe start to make up a copy of the original crank handle?
That's most of it. I need to find a cheap ordinary handle to cut up for the input section. I have the dimensions from the one T-36 owner that got an original crank with his. The finished item is 48" long.
There is the main section of the crank in place. The dropper under the front of the tow frame pivots down when you need to use the handle, and swings up onto the top of the tow bar where a jeep-type spring latch holds it when not needed. That's just the first attempt at the dropper section, needs a full rework. Fortunately one of the other owners still has the original dropper on his to use as a pattern
That's enough - I'm off for a rest
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
- Gordon_M
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am
- Location: central and north east Scotland, depending on the day
Re: T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
Reworked starting crank dropper coming up;
Yes, the welds still need a certain amount of work, but I reckon in use this part would get wrecked and fixed a good few times anyway.
... and here it is shown in the stowed position, swung up on top of the tow frame. I still have to make a spring catch for it and finish the starting crank;
Unfortunately the starting crank is the only one of the Iron Fireman made tools that I have a pattern for.
Yes, the welds still need a certain amount of work, but I reckon in use this part would get wrecked and fixed a good few times anyway.
... and here it is shown in the stowed position, swung up on top of the tow frame. I still have to make a spring catch for it and finish the starting crank;
Unfortunately the starting crank is the only one of the Iron Fireman made tools that I have a pattern for.
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
- Gordon_M
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1840
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am
- Location: central and north east Scotland, depending on the day
Re: SNL G-231, T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted
Working away at odds and ends.
The tool kit is as complete as it is likely to get - the remaining gaps are all Iron-fireman specific tooling and unlikely to turn up. The SCR-187 radio set is moving on nicely and only has a couple of items still to get, though the transmitter and receiver will both need work to be usable. I do keep doing stuff to the vehicle itself - spent an interesting couple of hours sanding, blasting, and needle-gunning rust pitting from the front right idler wheel where water had gathered across one strip of it, but nothing exciting enough to photograph.
It is very unusual for anything relating to these machines to show up on a well-known auction site, so thanks to Jeff for pointing me at a collection of original photos of a prototype machine in Alaska, originally credited to Joe Westover of U.S.A.A.F Air Transport Command, Alaska. Joe was also involved in the PARA-PUPS. These dogs were trained not only for rescues on land with a sled, but also to jump from an aircraft with a doctor and one sled to get to a downed airplane crew in a remote area. Unfortunately none of the images are good enough ( the originals are quite small ) to enlarge enough to identify the door sign - anyone recognise it?
The tool kit is as complete as it is likely to get - the remaining gaps are all Iron-fireman specific tooling and unlikely to turn up. The SCR-187 radio set is moving on nicely and only has a couple of items still to get, though the transmitter and receiver will both need work to be usable. I do keep doing stuff to the vehicle itself - spent an interesting couple of hours sanding, blasting, and needle-gunning rust pitting from the front right idler wheel where water had gathered across one strip of it, but nothing exciting enough to photograph.
It is very unusual for anything relating to these machines to show up on a well-known auction site, so thanks to Jeff for pointing me at a collection of original photos of a prototype machine in Alaska, originally credited to Joe Westover of U.S.A.A.F Air Transport Command, Alaska. Joe was also involved in the PARA-PUPS. These dogs were trained not only for rescues on land with a sled, but also to jump from an aircraft with a doctor and one sled to get to a downed airplane crew in a remote area. Unfortunately none of the images are good enough ( the originals are quite small ) to enlarge enough to identify the door sign - anyone recognise it?
Gordon
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
1941 Highway Trailer K-38
1944 Iron Fireman T-36 Snow Tractor
1986 Nolan Road/Rail trailer
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