How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Quarter-ton trailer series, Wanted, USED PARTS FOR SALE NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES., and Knowledge Base
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by juti » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:43 pm

Hello Chuck,
Thanks a lot for your effors. I sent you an email with the pictures - please check (might have ended in your spam filter).

Kind Regards,
Jurgen


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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by hambone » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:10 pm

Chuck, this is what I have found on trailer so far
1. Data plate missing
2. wet sanded, nothing found
3. ACM# 132947
4. upper & lower shock held on by nut, spring mount bolted
5. axle no seam
6. eight springs u shaped I would say, bottom closure
7. tail lights Stimsonite( civy I would say) reflectors Stratolite 2 bolts no other holes,
8. L type bolted
9. Drawbar # DR 938653 T
10. nothing found on bolt heads yet
11. wet sanded, nothing found
The distance between the brake mounting bolts, approx. 1 3/4" center to center, brake rod length 13 1/4"
Image
Image
Image
Thanks for any help you can provide, more info as I progress. Hambone
ACM# added, I have wet sanded back panel and frame, panels in front of fenders and front panel, no numbers found.

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by hambone » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:52 pm

Updated post with ACM#. Thanks, Hambone

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Chuck Lutz
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:42 am

You have a Navy contract Converto T-6 trailer...it was an ACM assembly completed by Converto and did not have a tailgate on it (that is the T-7 Converto). There aren't many of them around but based on the ACM number this would have been made about March 1945. I don't believe that Robert de Ruyter makes a repop data plate for this contract (more than one and different data plates).

Check for a shade of Navy grey paint somewhere as you restore this one....you scored BIG time with this trailer!

Can you email me or PM me your name and where this trailer will be located for my data base please?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by waldi » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:56 am

Hello Chuck,

got this nice Bantam trailer some weeks ago. The last use was by the french army.
I disassembled it and started the restoration. Can you please help me with some iformations regarding Serial Number, USA no. and DoD ?

Here is what I found during restoration process:

1. frame no.: B11731
2. rivetet shock absorber brackets on the frame
3. screwed shock absorber brackets at frame and leaf springs
4. leaf springs with 10 layers
5. center welded axle
6. no mounting holes or weldings for tail light brackets
7. welded lower mounting brackets for the fenders
8. aditional stamping "2192" at the RH side of the frame
9. data plate is missing
10. no stencils are visible

Here is the link of the photo album to take a look on it: http://www.fototime.com/inv/DB4A116AE33B128
Do you know how the trailer lamps were mounted because of the missing weldings or holes for the tail light bracket?

Many thanks,
Dirk
Ford GPW ; DoD Aug.30.1943 ; original data plates
frame #140334

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:18 am

Hello Dirk...
The photo shows ACM # 11371.....

This is an excellent example of why a good look for any markings or stampings of a trailer with no data plate on it can yield interesting results. When I put this ACM number into my data base, the range of known Serial Numbers is right where the number you found (2192) is. In other words, as many guys have found, the original serial number and/or USA numbers were put on trailers and if found, can be compared to the data base to see if they are legitimate.

Your Bantam will fit into my data base with the following information:
Serial Number........2192
DOD....................9-23-42
USA Number..........0171016

Can you check the axle again for me? I think you might find a welded seam on it as opposed to a smooth tube unless it was traded out at some point in time.

Also, what city do you live in for my records?

thanks!
Last edited by Chuck Lutz on Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:35 am

I always suggest you check the BRAKE DRUMS on the trailer. While it is not uncommon for your jeep to have had the drums "turned" down several times since WWII, there is no reason to ever turn down the drums on a trailer so saving them and finding a pair of them no longer servicable for the jeep is something I suggest you do.

If they are untouched (or very close to it!), save them for the front axle of your jeep when you do a major brake overhaul on it.

I saved the ones off my trailer and put on some that were given to me. The State of California has laws that make brake shops refuse to "turn" or install drums that are worn out. I just cleaned them up, installed new bearings/races/etc. and put them on my trailer. The handbrake still works and I have a pair of practically NEW drums for the GPW!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by waldi » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:07 pm

Hi Chuck,

many thanks for this good iformations. :D
Regarding the axle please take a look at pic 20 (it's very dark). It shows a center seam welded axle.
Do you know how Bantam fixed the tail light brackets ? Or was this trailer without tail lights ?
The trailer stays in 53474 Bad Neuenahr-Ahrweiler / Germany.


Best Regards,
Dirk

PS. you are rigth with the brake drums, trailers don't need perfect drums and changing them with a Jeep axle is an easy way to get a working pair of it.
Ford GPW ; DoD Aug.30.1943 ; original data plates
frame #140334

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:20 am

The VEP units from ACM that Bantam and Willys used had the taillight brackets WELDED to the frame rail. I don't have the measurements from an example for you, but my trailer has the bolt-on taillight brackets and they are 5 1/8" from the REAR of the frame.

Maybe someone who has an early Bantam or Willys can confirm the welded on ones are in that location.

On an angle of course so the taillight is perfectly verticle when mounted.

I only have one picture of a welded on bracket, it should give you an idea of where to look for grinding marks that would indicate the old ones were removed from the frame.
Welded Taillight Bracket MB-T.jpg
Welded Taillight Bracket MB-T.jpg (34.27 KiB) Viewed 4572 times
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by waldi » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:25 am

Chuck,

at a second trailer that I own there are the weldings realy good visible but at this trailer the surface of the frame is untouched and clean - no weldings or holes. (tomorrow I'll post a pic) So it seams to me that tail lights were never mounted.
The rest of the frame is indetical to the second one, holes for the wiring and the switch.
Additional I only find mounting holes for the reflectors at the body tub. I' can check the bars for mounting holes of wiring clips.


Dirk
Ford GPW ; DoD Aug.30.1943 ; original data plates
frame #140334

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:32 pm

I've never run across an early G529 that did not have either the two mounting holes in the frame for the "L" bracket or VEP ones having the bracket itself welded to the frame (or some traces of it being welded on). The French Army was pretty thorough with their rebuilds so I still think they removed the brackets. Since this is an EARLY Bantam and all those with a lower ACM number and maybe 1400 after it had them welded on before the frames were drilled for bolt-on "L" brackets...I think yours had them at some point prior to the French Army rebuild.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by waldi » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:41 am

Chuck,

sorry but I can see no signs of tail light mountings. Please take a closer look at pic "6" and "12" .
http://www.fototime.com/inv/73BEED7B4F155EA
I add two pics of the frame section from second trailer that had welded tail light brackets (pic. "27" + "28").

And than I want to ask you something about an older post that I sent in 2010.
At that time I restored a Bantam trailer with an ACM no. that was badley rusted. You told me that I have to look closer to find the rest of the no.
So I stored the trailer to finish the restoration later. Now I pulled it out of the storage to check it closer and I find the rest of the ACM no.
The no. is "15049".
Can I send you the older posts to research again about this trailer ?
Ford GPW ; DoD Aug.30.1943 ; original data plates
frame #140334

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:25 am

Dirk...

1) Yes, send me the link to those questions about that other trailer so we can figure that one out also.

2) I looked at those two pics and can clearly see the HOLE on each frame about 20cm from the rear crossmember where the LOOM for the taillight buckets exited the frame. This ACM is too early for bolt-on brackets so they were welded on. This is a WWII trailer, not a civilian version so no changes from the basic design would have happened to an early Bantam. Don't worry about how well the French Army did in removing the welded on brackets, all you need to do is to get two of the bolt-on style and weld up the holes and then weld them onto the trailer. You can even check the OTHER trailer to see where they should be mounted.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by waldi » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:32 pm

Hi Chuck,

sent you a mail regarding B15049.

Dirk
Ford GPW ; DoD Aug.30.1943 ; original data plates
frame #140334

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by baerdus » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:49 am

Hello Chuck,
last year I ´ve bought a trailer from a 87 year old man in Frankfurt, Germany, who got it directly from the US Army during the end of the war. Now i need also some help to identify its Serial Number, USA no. and DoD. I hope you may help me.

Here is what I found:
1. no dataplate left
2. no markings visible
3. ACM number: 41392, no "B" or "W" visible
4. upper shock mount: threated type, rivetet to the frame
lower shock mount: cotter-pin
5. center welded axle with stamped -#: 343 V 5
6. leaf springs with 10 layers, U-shape, spring clips closure to the bottom (earth side)
7. no original taillights mounted, Reflectors: Grotelite No100, Bolt heads inside, washers under the nut
8. taillight mounts: bolted "L" brackets
9. no additional numbers visible
10. Bolts: 1 hand brake bolt marked "AA", lower brake bolt marked with a mirrowed "B" and VP
11. no stencils visible (the tub is too rusty)

Thanks and Kindly regards
Jürgen
GPW 55107, 8/10/42, USA 20140106 (est.)
Bantam T3 15399, 03/25/43
M151A1 2M5949
M416


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