How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Quarter-ton trailer series, Wanted, USED PARTS FOR SALE NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES., and Knowledge Base
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:34 am

I don't have another MB-T with an ACM number close to yours that has a data plate intact so this is a good estimate.

Willys MB-T
Serial Number.....11566
DOD.................Nov '42
USA Number.......0213256

A pretty good estimate though....DOD for sure.

Can you send me your name and city in Finland for my records?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947


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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Jesper » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:41 am

Hello Chuck, Hope you can help me out with my trailer.

1) Data Plate: There is no data plate present. 3 out of 4 rivets are still in place.
2) USA Number: Can't find one.
3) ACM Number: # 125479
4) Upper Shock Mount: Is threaded type. It is BOLTED to the frame? The LOWER shock mount is threaded.
5) The axel is a straight tube.
6) Springs: How many leaves in the springs? Eight or ten? 8 Standard FLAT Willys type or a flattened "U" shape? U shape Are the spring clips with the closure on the top or the bottom? Bottom
7) Taillights & Reflectors: No lights. Some stimsonite reflectors came with the trailer as parts.
8) Taillight Mounts: None
9) Numbers: Trailer has a French ITM number for being used in the French army after the war.
10) Bolts: Check the markings (if any) on the bolt heads on the fenders or other bolts on the trailer. Trailer has a lot of BC bolts.
11) Unit Numbers: None.

Thankyou.
Jesper

Willys MB #225846 (April '43)
Bantam T3 Trailer #125479 (December '44)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Jesper » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:33 am

Anyone????
Jesper

Willys MB #225846 (April '43)
Bantam T3 Trailer #125479 (December '44)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:59 pm

I have been working on the data base and with complete data plate/ACM/USA numbers in that range the estimate is very general....the change from one series of USA numbers to the next with each contract makes this a rough estimate at best!

Bantam
Serial Number........55550
DOD....................12/30/44
USA Number..........0702695

Any time you guys can find other G-529 1/4 ton trailers with an intact data plate, take a pic and check the ACM number and ask the owner if they found even a partial USA number on the rear panel....I just don't have enough examples with all the data to base these estimates on to make them any better than what I can come up with........

But....I need your name and city/country for my records...
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by JimT » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:04 am

I have had this trailer for about 35 years thinking it was a 1960's model which is what the title says. When I found your website I was surprised to find that it looks like it is a WW2 Bantam. I would like to find out as much as I can about it and replace the missing data plate. I would like to know which data plate is the correct model and if you can determine the correct Serial Number and DOD. Also would like to know if I should restore it or leave it as is. You help is much appreciated.

JimT

1) Data Plate: No data plate present. All 4 rivets are still in place.
2) USA Number:0254607
3) ACM Number:18441B
Image
4) Upper shock mount. Threaded, and riveted to the frame. The lower shock mount is threaded.
5) The axle is a straight tube with a welded seam in the middle.
6) Springs: How many leaves in the springs? Eight. All flattened "U" shape except for the bottom short one which is standard flat. Spring clips have the closure on the bottom.
7) Taillights & Reflectors: Taillights do not appear to be original, PMCO in stop sign shape on lens.ImageImage
Reflectors have PM 460 SAE-A on bezel, Stratolite No. 3 on lens. Bolts have a B on them with bolt head on the outside.Image
8) Taillight Mounts: L bracket bolted on.
9) Numbers: Tongue has "BANTAM 5774" stamped on top of right hand drawbar. No additional numbers found.
10) Bolts: Only bolt heads found with markings are the bolts holding on the reflectors which have a single B near the edge. Fender bolts have no markings.
11) Unit Numbers: Have not sanded the back or lower support to look for a unit number. The U.S.A. and number outline was visible through the paint.

A few more pics.
This one might make a good Captcha image. What do you see here? I didn't see anything until sunset last evening when the sun was at almost 90 degrees, then it popped out. Don't sand till you look very closely! (My wife went over the USA with her finger.)
Image

Still don't see it? Here is 025 enlarged, circled and in a different color. It's even easier to see right at sunset.
Image

Image
Sorry, I had it upside down to check the ACM number. Somebody cut the lunette and the foot off and welded on the solid arm and the trailer hitch. I have the lunette somewhere if I can find it after 35 years.

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Fri May 06, 2016 11:23 am

Hi Jim...

I checked the ACM number you provided against the USA number you posted and they certainly DO line up where they should if they were original to one another. If I add in the "5774" as the serial number it makes even MORE sense. I don't know how you got the complete USA off the rear of the trailer but it fits nice!

I would suggest you have a very original Bantam trailer that a WWII jeeper would love to have. If you aren't interested in restoring it to it's former glory, I think you would have several guys who would live to have it behind their jeep!

Here is what I think you have:
Bantam
Serial Number.......5774
DOD...................11/13/42
USA Number.........0254607

You would need period correct reflectors and inserts and correct taillight buckets, a wiring harness and a BO Light switch. Add a landing leg bracket and landing leg and get the handbrake and cable working and add that thin lunette, find some combat rims/tires and you have a winner there!

Of course a complete teardown, blasting, priming and painting will complete the resto. Heck, the chains look to be original, you have the handbrake, taillight brackets and unless the floor is like Swiss Cheese,,,,that's going to be one fine trailer.

Check the web for Robert de Ruyter in the Netherlands for the best data plates on the planet. try "dataplates4u". Just give him the serial number and DOD and he will know which plate to use and...he can stamp it with the correct fonts and spacing on the fields for you. Remember the heads of the rivets go inside the tub!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by JimT » Fri May 06, 2016 10:15 pm

Thank you very much for looking up my information. My trailer does have combat wheels, they just don't show very well in the photo. Those were my first hint that this might not be a 1962 Bantam. A trailer dealer told me that some of the WWII trailers had two part rims called combat wheels and when I got home and looked at mine and Lo and behold it had two part rims. Then I found your thread on the internet to verify my suspicions. I can't thank you enough.

It also has a blackout switch but I haven't looked at it closely enough to tell if it is still usable. I also will need the wiring harness and have ordered the data plate from Mr. de Ruyter but won't attach it until after any restoration is done. Should I have the brake cable sand blasted or just try working it with PB Blaster? It's pretty rusty. Don't know if I want to invest in the tail lights, landing leg and tires until I decide whether to sell it or restore it. I think it really needs to go behind a WWII Jeep which I don't have currently.

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Marcin PL » Wed May 18, 2016 10:35 am

Hi all, I´m new in all Jeep world but I´m in militaria bussines for past 25 years. Recently I decided to get myself Jeep Willys. It is very late one from August 1945. Now is ondergoing full restoration. I bought als T3 trailer. I stripped it as well. It is in greate shape, ex Austrian army service. As far as I found it is Bantam. One brake drum is Ford (rebuild?) There is no data plate, just welded spots where it was. I didn´t remove paint yet, so I cant see any markings. It will follow.
I have quite high number. Could anybody help me with date estimation please?
Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Marcin PL » Wed May 25, 2016 9:08 am

Anyone any ideas? Any help much appriciated!

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue May 31, 2016 1:34 pm

Simply post the answers to all the questions I listed and I would be happy to work up an estimate for you.
Best you start a new thread though.
For now...she's an early 1944 Bantam.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Marcin PL » Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:38 am

Chuck,
Thank's of lot for answer. I'll do as soon I'll be back from Normandy.

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by jedburgh » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:30 am

Hello,
This a new mbt trailer !
Image
Image
serial number 37879
Dod : 8/43
Image
Image
Jeep Willys "MP" 354074 dod: july 24 1944
Jeep Willys 288001 dod : december 9 1943
Bantam trailer sérial body 116858 dod august 44

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:41 am

Can you confirm the following?
1) Upper shock mounts are RIVETED or BOLTED to the frame?
2) With the shocks remove, are they held onto the upper and lower mounts with a COTTER PIN or are they THREADED/BOLTED on?
3) Is the axle a SMOOTH TUBE, does it have a WELDED SEAM in the middle or does it have a CAST CENTER?
4) Can you send my your first/last name and city for my data base?
5) Can you send me the ACM number that can be found by removing the left front spring hanger and wire-wheeling the frame gusset plate?

I will send you an estimate of the missing USA number for this trailer!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by juti » Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:04 am

Hello Chuck,
My ¼ ton trailer awaits the finishing touches, I’m looking for confirmation of my numbers (ACM # versus serial #) plus you best guess on the Date of Delivery and USA registration number.

Here are the details:

1) Data Plate: If yours is present, what is the info stamped on it? How many "fields" are available for stamping info?
Original rivets are still there, but no data plate.

2) USA Number: Wet sand an upper corner area to see how many coats of paint are on the rear panel. Then SLOWLY wet sand right under the rear top hook to find the "USA", in doing that you will now know what to look for when you sand just above the lower frame rail looking for the eight numbers usually found on the rear panel...you may find White or Blue paint used here.
No USA number (unfortunately trailer had been sandblasted 20 years ago).

3) ACM Number: American Central MFG. made the tub/frame assembly. They put a number on the gusset plate under the left front spring hanger so remove it and wire-wheel the gusset looking for numbers about 7/16" in height. You may find a "B" or "W" in front, behind or below the number.
ACM number stamped on the gusset plate under the left front spring hanger: 104104

4) Upper Shock Mount: Is it threaded or cotter-pin type? Is it RIVETED or BOLTED to the frame? Is the LOWER shock mount threaded or cotter-pin?
Upper & lower shock mounts cotter-pin type. Upper shock mount bolted to the frame.

5) Is the axel a straight tube, with a welded seam in the middle or does it have a center cast section?
Straight, seamless tube.

6) Springs: How many leaves in the springs? Eight or ten? Standard FLAT Willys type or a flattened "U" shape? Are the spring clips with the closure on the top or the bottom?
8 leafs per spring, flattened "U" shape, except for the shortest lowest leaf. Spring clips 1 ¼” wide with closure on the bottom.

7) Taillights & Reflectors: What is the mfg of the taillight buckets and doors? What about the reflector bezels? Check to see if the reflectors have the bolt HEADS inside the tub. See if they have any lead washers on them.
No original tail lights and reflectors.

8) Taillight Mounts: Standard “L” brackets bolted to the tub or welded on?
Tail light mounts std “L” brackests bolted to the tub.

9) Numbers: Look on the top or sides of the drawbars, check the edge of the front of the tub where the handbrake is bolted and look on the left side of the frame near the front of the trailer frame. Any numbers stamped there?
Following number on top of the right drawbar: 57073. The number is quite “crooked”: the first 7 is upside-down within the numbers, the second 7 marked twice (overlapping with each other) and the number is to be read from the center of the trailer (approaching the trailer from the right side the number would be upside-down)

10) Bolts: Check the markings (if any) on the bolt heads on the fenders or other bolts on the trailer. (A, AA, EC, BC or others or none?)
Some heads are marked "C", most other bolts are metric replacements (marked "8.8")

11) Unit Numbers: Most outfits did NOT mark the rear frame beneath the tub with the unit info but some did. Wet sand this area carefully also, there may be several coats of paint and several units markings!
No unit markings as the trailer had been sandblasted, unfortunately.

Reading your posts it appears to be a late Willys MBT. I bought the trailer nearly 20 years ago from an old Polish farmer.
I would appreciate if you could look up your data base to confirm the two numbers I found are somehow matching and to provide a DoD and USA reg number estimate.

Thanks a lot for your efforts & help!

Kind Regards,

Jürgen
Katowice, Poland

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:38 pm

Hello Jurgen...

At first glance, the 104104 ACM number would place it near the end of Willys production in Feb. 1944. However the serial numbers at that time would have been much higher than 57073 and more in the 60xxx range. However, near the end of production Willys could have been shipped many tub assemblies from ACM and they might have gotten a 104xxx one on the line that early.

If you look under my name you will find my emal icon...send me a pic of the 57073 as well....

It might be the original Serial Number but it does seem out of order too much at this time...
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947


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