How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

[adam8888d]

P1050344.JPG (147.5 KiB) Viewed 2843 times

[adam8888d]

more pics

[Chuck Lutz]

Adam:
1) start a new thread with ALL the info and answers to the How TO questions in one place and any photos you have...
2) right now I have a couple pics that I can't put together with any other info you may have posted....
3) I would be happy to help but you need to put all this in ONE new thread I can find and not have to go looking all over the gee to piece this together.

[Brett M]

Hello, We have recently acquired a trailer and have followed the directions posted earlier to identify it correctly.
Unfortunately it has spent many years exposed to the weather & Australian sun & had a bit of the rusty stuff on it & won't give up it secrets easily.
Please see what details we can supply below;

1) Data Plate: NIL
2) USA #: NIL
3) ACM Number: 64130
4) Upper Shock Mount: Is both threaded & drilled for a split pin as are the lower ones. Both upper mounts are bolted to the frame
5) Axel: Welded seam in the middle.
6) Springs: How many leaves in the springs? Eight. Willys type, spring clip closure on the bottom facing ground when installed.
7) Taillights & Reflectors: NIL.
Taillight Mounts: Not present, can see two holes in frame for bolts on each side.
9) Numbers: Drawbars NIL, Angle iron at front NIL.
10) Bolts: NIL markings found
11) Unit Numbers: NIL

While sanding off the paint looking for the ACM we noticed the different colors starting with red oxide, olive drab, USMC Green, Fire truck red then finally yellow.

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Any assistance would be great
Thanks Brett

[Chuck Lutz]

Brett:

Your Bantam is not easy to estimate as I have no examples CLOSE to that ACM number that have listed Serial Numbers and USA numbers. This is in the proper range by month but a very rough estimate of the rest of the info.

Bantam
Serial Number.......27677
DOD...................8/19/43
USA...................0275010

That's the best I can do but if you are going to restore it then later on before you order/stamp a data plate get back to me to see if anyone has provided me with some example(s) close to your ACM with a data plate.

By the way, can you post your last name and the city/state where you live for my data base?

[Brett M]

Thanks Chuck,

After some more sanding in different areas we have come up with another very faint # from the top of the draw bar on the passenger side & that looks to be 26605.

So you reckon it is a Bantam trailer not a Willy's even though it has the second version Willy's axle fitted.

Thanks Brett

[Ian Fawbert]

Hi Brett,

I dont suppose you've found any painted on numbers? an ARN (Army Registration number), if issued to the Australian army, would have been painted on your trailer somewhere. Usually see them on the rear panel in the middle, below or around the tarp hook, on the rear crossmember, on either side of the front chassis rail below/near where the panel joins the body. If you check the war memorial website and search for 'jeep trailer', you will see pics of bantam/willys trailers with a ARN painted on them to give you an idea.

If it was an Australian army trailer (or even a RAAF trailer), the number will be painted in white, about 3 or 3.5inches tall. It will likely start with a 1 and be 6 digits long (or a 2 if RAAF and be 6 digits long). I know your saids USMC green, but it could be a repainted Australian army colour- a form of khaki or deep bronze green or a similar shade (not saying it isn't USMC green, just putting options out there!). Id have a guess it is a ex fire brigade or PMG trailer?

With an ARN, we can work out the serial number (but not a RAAF ARN- long story involving missing public and/private copies of the RAAF records!!)

Cheers,
Ian.

[Chuck Lutz]

A very large number of trailers in my data base have incorrect axles and/or lower shock mounts. Many Bantams with bolt-on shocks had the pins drilled for cotter pins. Both of these repairs/modifications are not at all rare and are never good features to try to ID a G529.

The number you found, 26605 at first seems to be close enough to be the actual serial number but of the few entries near yours:
#26279 with ACM 61252
#27128 with ACM 62806

Usually the skew between Serial Number and ACM is somewhat constant....neither Bantam nor Willys used up their ACM tubs in a straight numerical system, and sometimes they are found a few hundred or so out of whack...but that is due to ACM sending units to both companies and both companies keeping their on-hand inventory to a minimum and FILO/LIFO usage.

It would seem impossible for Bantam to use an ACM 64130 between ACM 61252 and 62806.

I suspect that your trailer and Bantam #26605 were somehow refurbished at some point dismantled. When they were reassembled that number was not important as I think the ARN number was the important one and it did not matter what number was on the drawbar as it was painted over.

that's the most likely scenario I can see here...best to follow Ian's advice and look for the ARN number and get back with that.

[Brett M]

Thanks Ian & Chuck for your replies,

Ian, we are still sanding the tub in different areas trying to get it to reveal more of its secrets to us, but no luck as yet.

Chuck, my wife last night rubbed something onto the number on the draw bar to try & bring it out more after being on over night and a bit more of a light sand this morning it seems to have changed to ?060?5, the first could be a 0,C, or 6 very hard to tell the only one thing for sure so far is the ACM #.

What ever the end result is, as far as ID is concerned. We should be able to cover this during the restoration as I have enough spare running gear to do either a 2nd version Willy's or Bantam trailer.
Once again thank you both for your input.

Brett

[Chuck Lutz]

While I can't give you an exact set of data based on the ACM number.....it is highly unlikely, no...make that darn near impossible that the refurbishment of this trailer included removing upper shock mounts with cotter pin holes in them (MBT) then replacing them with threaded mount types (Bantam) then having the threaded mounts drilled for cotter pins...makes absolutely NO sense at all.

At the same time, while I can't narrow down the missing info any better, a quick check of the Willys MBT list shows that they didn't get but a few units from ACM in that number range either, meaning it would be even LESS likely this trailer started out as a Willys MBT.

It is a Bantam by all the information you provided...and if you saw the numbers of MBTs or T3s with the "wrong" axle or "wrong" lower mounts you would understand that switching those parts around during repairs/overhauls was a VERY common thing and those items are NEVER used to positively ID a trailer.

[jrmyers]

Chuck, I have a 1/4 ton trailer which I believe is an early Bantam. The only identification available is the ACM number which is 15498B. Following is the information that you indicate you need to help in determining when the trailer was built.
1-no data plate
2-no USA number
3-ACM number 15498B
4-upper shock is bolted and the bracket is riveted to frame
5-axle is welded in middle
6-springs have 8 leafs
7-taillights and reflectors are not original
8-taillight mounts are bolted on
9-no other markings
10 bolts have AA

Any help in identifying this trailer will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
James Myers

[Chuck Lutz]

James...you have a very early Bantam. I don't have another with a data plate & ACM number really close enough to make a better estimate than this, but it is likely the correct month and serial number range as per this estimate.

Bantam
Serial Number .........3955
DOD......................10/20/42
USA Number............0172737

[JeeperFIN]

ACM Number: 16513 W
Upper Shock Mount: Riveted
Axle: Cast center
Taillight Mounts: Welded to frame

[Chuck Lutz]

Send me the answers to the rest of the questions on the ID and I would be able to give you an estimate of the missing info. Should be a Nov. 1942 though.

[JeeperFIN]

Send me the answers to the rest of the questions on the ID and I would be able to give you an estimate of the missing info. Should be a Nov. 1942 though.

1) No data plate
2) No USA number
3) 16513 W
4) Cotter pins and riveted to frame
5) Cast center section
6) Mixed leafs (flat and u)
7) No taillights and reflectors
Welded
9) No numbers
10) Few C marked and 1035 marked bolts
11) No unit numbers