101st AB - Germany April 1945

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zepher11
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Re: 101st AB - Germany April 1945

Post by zepher11 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:39 pm

Chuck Lutz wrote:Zeph....

The Luger (made by Mauser in Oberndorf)....appears to be what had been nicknamed a "Black Widow" by Ralph Shattuck from AZ before he passed away. I would bet it has "41" (maybe a "42") on the top of the chamber and "byf" on the toggle link (Mauser made). That one is magnificent and unless it was reblued at some point (doubt that) it is an excellent example! (Look at the end of the barrel...is the crown blued or "in the white"? Look into the mag well for blueing also) You will find the last two digits on most parts that are too small for all four numbers.....Lugers were numbered from 1 to 9999, then a lower case "a" was added, they repeated the proceedure, then added a "b", etc.
Thanks for the great information, Chuck. I had read at one time that this may be the “Black Widow” model. Sadly, Iris had this Luger reblued in 2000. Why? She thought it would make it look better. It did, but I didn’t have the heart to tell her it was a bad thing. I only wished she didn’t. Oh well, it is still a great piece of history nonetheless.

Here are photos of some of the detail marks you had outlined above. The pictures are not the best as some of the marks are really small. Here is the magazine. It is the only thing that doesn’t match. You will see that all of the little parts have the number 17 stamped on them:

Image

There is a German eagle on the barrel and on the main component just behind the barrel. A couple of the marks are difficult to make out, but I see the 135 below one eagle:

Image

Under the barrel:

Image

Top view. One can see the 42 and byf stamps:

Image

17’s all around:

Image

Another German eagle:

Image

I have thought about shooting the pistol, but have not. It looks basically brand new. I wish I knew what it looked like before Iris had in blued. Although it has lost most of its value due to the reblueing, it still is a striking example of engineering and workmanship.
Zeph

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Re: 101st AB - Germany April 1945

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:14 pm

It probably looks much better, but it did reduce the collector value of the pistol by 50% probably, maybe more. Aside from the mag not matching (most Lugers don't have a matching mag these days) the rest of the visible numbers are "matching" on this one....It is a 42 Mauser #2317 c and is a 1942 production pistol.

The capture paper adds value to the pistol by the way so they should NEVER be separated....and as the paper is OLD, it should not be folded and unfolded to preserve it.

They are fine pistols and the design is over 100 years old. Show one to anyone and they can identify it as a Luger.....basically designed by Georg Luger, an American citizen based on the Borchart pistol design.

Here is an older brother...by a few months or so. It has wear from being holstered and the high spots show wear:
BW Left Side 1.jpg
BW Left Side 1.jpg (240.39 KiB) Viewed 3495 times
By the way, that Luger would have been delivered with a magazine with "fxo" and a small eagle over 37 stamped on it with the black plastic bottom held on with a rivet as see here:
Mauser fxo E37 Markings.jpg
Mauser fxo E37 Markings.jpg (140.54 KiB) Viewed 3461 times
Mauser E37 Mark.jpg
Mauser E37 Mark.jpg (142.31 KiB) Viewed 3461 times
These are not serial numbered to the pistol by the way. The markings are from the mfger. the same mag is seen in the photo of the pistol above. Note that the bottom end of the mag is squared off as opposed to the earlier curve that kept both ends of the mag tucked into the mag well...
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: 101st AB - Germany April 1945

Post by tapeandgauze » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:03 pm

GREAT STORY AND A GREAT IMAGE!

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Re: 101st AB - Germany April 1945

Post by zepher11 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:57 pm

Been a while since this thread was originally posted, but I thought it would be appropriate to post this here. I am getting ready to move Iris into assisted living, and as we were going through things I found this 101st Airborne screaming eagle pin with attached jump wings. Both sections are pin backs. They are small and I would think the set is like a tie clip of some sort. It was Bill's and both the shield and the jump wings are stamped "sterling" with "H.R. Newcome Co. N.Y.C." on the rear of the shield. I had to use a magnifying glass to read that. The stamped lettering is really small and can be seen, barely, in the second photo on the back of the shield.

I don't know if these are WWII era, or shortly thereafter. Has anyone seen or have one of these? I'm sure there are others out there. I googled it but didn't see anything. Just thought they were neat.
101st Airborne 01.JPG
101st Airborne 01.JPG (64.5 KiB) Viewed 3286 times
101st Airborne 02.JPG
101st Airborne 02.JPG (60.83 KiB) Viewed 3285 times
Zeph

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Re: 101st AB - Germany April 1945

Post by tipdog » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:15 pm

Could also be a WWII-era "sweetheart pin."

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Re: 101st AB - Germany April 1945

Post by zepher11 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:43 am

tipdog wrote:Could also be a WWII-era "sweetheart pin."
I am certain that that is what it is. After searching a bit I have found a couple examples that are very similiar in appearance. And they were produced by the same maker. Mystery solvent...
Zeph

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Re: 101st AB - Germany April 1945

Post by zepher11 » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:13 pm

After many months of trying, I finally found and contacted the individual in Ohio that purchased Bill Sobiski's 101st Jump and Ike Jackets as well as Kelley's( viewtopic.php?f=108&t=192916 ) Eighth Air Force Uniforms today.

He is 75 and has cancer now, but when I asked if I could reunite the uniforms with the family and the other WWII artifacts of Bill's and Kelley's, he said NO! He told me he sent them to his son in Florida in a bunch of trunks. I asked if maybe his son would be willing to reunite them and he said NO! I said we would pay whatever value he believed them to be, but he said NO!

I told him that i had reunited WWII artifacts and uniforms that I had bought with family members in the past (always free of charge by the way), still he was unimpressed. I barely was able to get him to take my number just in case he changed his mind. Oh well, I feel good that I spent all that time and tried.

Just an epilogue....
Zeph

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Re: 101st AB - Germany April 1945

Post by stever0_3 » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:03 pm

Excellent thread thank for sharing!

Regards

Steve

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Re: 101st AB - Germany April 1945

Post by zepher11 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:45 am

stever0_3 wrote:Excellent thread thank for sharing!

Regards

Steve
No problem Steve. My pleasure.
Zeph

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'41 Dodge WC16 Restoration Thread: CLICK HERE!

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Re: 101st AB - Germany April 1945

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:27 pm

Zeph...,

If you could find that guy then you can find the guy in FL that he sent them to if that story is in fact the truth....maybe, maybe not....I think the guy in FL might be just a tad more reasonable in reuniting the uniforms and the families....

Get on the 'net and find that guy!

Good Luck!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: 101st AB - Germany April 1945

Post by stever0_3 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:59 pm

Any news on reuniting the uniforms?

Regards

Steve


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